April 11, 2007...10:48 am

So What Am I Worth?

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Sometimes, when faced with a big task, like a huge mess to clear up or a massive broken sexual subculture to fix, it is impossible to approach the job in a methodical way, piece by piece.

When you move house (which I just have – offline-identity fact collating stalkers) and are sat there with all your belongings in boxes you can’t just start putting everything away one thing after another, because, say, the ropes are all tangled. (Because you don’t store them properly, because – in case you weren’t aware of the fact – in this paragraph *you* are playing the part of *me*.) So you need the scissors to sort them out but they’re in another box, and you just can’t decide whether to put the handcuffs (five pairs – remember) in with the ropes (still tangled) or with the other metal stuff like nipple clamps and panic snaps and padlocks.

So, you see, this is a big job. Not the unpacking - I’ll talk someone into doing that for me. I mean this place. This other place where I live. My other home. Fucking femdomia.

I don’t really have a plan here. I’m just trying. I don’t *know* if when I say I hate the completely PVC encased plasti-dom look I think it should be completely erased from the face of the earth, or if I am just saying I just want my own non-plastic more-natural-fibre based style to be okay too. (Or if I’m just being whiny and insecure about my non-striking physicality.)

But you know, don’t have to decide where everything going to go at the start. Let’s just move the boxes around and see where we get. We might have to take the cage all the way upstairs and then change our minds and bring it back down and put it in the cellar, but hey, there’s a few of us here and I’m sure enough of you are big strong boys.

Obviously most of my belongings are not actually for weird sex. I use these examples only to amuse you because I am feeling generous.

I don’t have a bloody cage.

Although I did once think about buying one.

But, forget that, my point is this. Huge tasks don’t break down neatly. Sometimes it’s chip, chip, chip, a bit at a time. Sometimes you just have to just make things a bit better even if that isn’t perfect. Sometimes trying to be all perfect will get you nowhere at all.

What I am trying to say here is that I still haven’t nailed this thing. This blog. Where I am going here. My point. I don’t have a plan. All I am trying to do is make things better. But I’m not perfect. And my words are not arrows of pure crystalline truth.

I’m just trying to be a wee bit better (i.e. less unbelievably fucking offensive) than everything else in femdom, which isn’t hard, as everything else in femdom is way shitty.

So, disclaimer over, previously on Bitchy Jones’s hysterical woebegone Diary, your idol was talking about prodoms and there was a lot of chat and comment and I realised something. Three things actually – which may contradict each other - and which I want to add here as furthermores to the last post. Which I will do in three more posts because I talk to damn much.

1. Does professional domination make what I do worthless?
I’ve been with guys who I am pretty sure chose to be with me rather than a pro because I was free. It was that simple. For them, I was a better deal. In a lot of nooks of the femdom world paying for it is the default setting for sub men. I was free. What a find. Bargain. Especially if they could talk me into being as kink enabling as a pro, which - as I am somewhat insecure now and was way insecure then - was pretty much possible to do. (I’m not talking about give and take here - I’m talking about persuading me to do things I found dull or offensive and presenting them - within play - as my desires.)

In a world ruled by money where everything has a price then my domination is worthless because I give it away. Or at least to some men. The kind of men who think, whee, here’s a bitch who’s giving it away.

I don’t charge for it because it turns me on. The fact it turns me on means it has less value.

That pisses me off.

*

You don’t have to all rush and say how priceless and fabulous and valued my sexaulity is by the way (not that that wouldn’t be both cool and somewhat hot), you read my journal and that’s enough for me. Although when I look at my stats I do sometimes wonder if I could find a way to charge you all a pound.

Or I could find another way for the cute ones to pay.

40 Comments

  • No bloody cage? I should hope not. Make them clean up their own blood, I say.

    Another fab post. Just so you know, it pisses me off too.

    What’s the set-up for male doms, I wonder? I’m still not sure how the paying for it fits into the general d/s dynamic, and I think the answer to that question would help.

  • God, you know, I normally try so hard to watch for ambiguous uses of ‘bloody’ (and also ‘fucking’).

    The trials of writing a kinky sex blog and having a foul mouth.

  • Would you pay a sub? Like male subs pay doms…would you pay a sub to be whipped by you etc?

    I was just wondering if maybe the paying thing was half of the appeal for subs. Maybe Krystal’s clients get a kick out of the fact that they’re giving money to a dom, just as they get a kick out of being beaten by a dom?

    But then you as a non-charging dom would kind of mess that theory right up.

    Just wondering. Great post

  • Well there is the whole findom thing, where men just send women money and get off on that. Financial Domination - you could Google it.

    Would I pay? Yes.

    But that is quite a big statement and I really need to do a whole post about it.

  • Seriously? I’m not too sure what I think about that…part of me retches at the idea of it, but then another part of me thinks it’s a good business move for a Dom to make. And of course if people like that sort of thing, who am I to judge…?

    I’m reading one of the websites now; she offers a “Phone Humiliation” service, has a wish list on Amazon and a sex toy wish list and there’s a way for men to pay her household bills for her.

    Hmmm. Still undecided on what I think.

  • I would have thought that paying a sub would sort of defeat the point - surely there would be the nagging thought that they were just tolorating the treatment not becuase they adore you or love you etc… but purelly becuase they get the bucks - have I miss understood here?

    Subs paying I can kind of see fits in with the being dismissed as a piece of crap, she enjoys this but I’m only worthy of her attentions if I pay etc…

    Obviously I am no expert and have probably got everything right round my neck.

  • There is a saying in the Netherlands: “Everything of worth is defenceless”, it’s a bit different from the “everything that comes free is without worth”.

    It seems to me that because you value it so much, you are willing to make concessions towards subs. Willing to do some things which they want.

    It doesnt mean it has less value, au contraire. It means there is a lot of value for you in it, which you are willing to ‘trade’, by means of doing some of the kinks which they like and want.
    Which is, in itself, a form of paying the sub…

    These are just random babblings of a dutch sub, do I make sense, at all?

  • cant think of a good name
    April 11, 2007 at 1:58 pm

    Do FemaleSubs pay MaleDoms for services?

    I expect not but i dont know.

    Lets say they dont. Does this make MaleDoms as worthless as FemaleDom who doesnt charge?

    Personnally i would have thought that a FemaleDom who doesnt charge BECAUSE she loves it! Would be a massive turn on for a true MaleSub.

  • Nothing’s ever free, Bitchy, BDSM least of all—there’s always give and take, cost and supply. It’s just that not everything comes with the price tag listed neatly in monetary currency.

    It’s also not always helpful to think of things with such emotional detachment, as I often do (I’m working on that), but it’s certainly important to keep that perspective in mind.

  • Oh, and also, the whole financial domination thing is the thing that squicks me out the most. I have a friend (a wonderful woman, extremely intelligent, beautiful, and kind) who does this, and for the life of me I can’t reconcile what she does with who she is and it does cause problems for me.

    Then again, in the very vanilla jon and hooker scenario, it’s the jon’s I find more repulsive. I wonder if there’s a paralell.

  • I don’t really know anything about findom. I don’t know whether it’s another ‘Out of Order’ sign on this place or something I should just leave alone.

    It often gets used as a stick with ‘you’re all whores’ written on it, with female doms get hit with all the damn time.

    Often by male doms, who I am pretty sure *don’t* get to charge, and occassionally seem rather pissed off about that. If I were a male dom I would be way more pissed off about a lot of other things. Like the price of cigars. Mind you, I’d get called ‘Daddy’, so I wouldn’t mind.

    And, Vampyra, you’re right, but I can make it work. And I have got a half written post which will proove it in a day or two.

  • I look forward to it then Bitchy.

  • Maymay said “Nothing’s ever free, Bitchy, BDSM least of all—there’s always give and take, cost and supply. It’s just that not everything comes with the price tag listed neatly in monetary currency.”

    Exactly spot on. I do not want or need any financial renumeration for what I do but I certainly receive a lot both emotionally and physically. I couldn’t ever put a price tag on that and I couldn’t ever be with someone who didn’t understand that concept.

  • You think that, I think that, Maymay thinks that. There are lots of cool people in kink. There are people who have their own little set up going or are part of liberal tuned-in sub-cultures.

    Those people, of course, *know*.

    But that ain’t the world.

    I care what the wider world thinks of me, of people like me, I care about the prevailing culture and the women who would love to dominate men but can’t see anything fun past the bullshit.

    It’s not about who *I* play with - I’ve kind of got things more sorted now. But I remember starting out. Other women are starting out now. And feeling what I felt. What I do might be special in the eyes of people who understand it.

    But I want everyone to understand.

  • Hello!
    I’ve already paid male-doms and the difference,for me,between paying and non-paying was I found much harder to leave the latter. Yes,I’m mean like that,I do leave male-doms and just walk away the moment I get bored.I must be also a very weird “sub”,because I do not consider male doms special beings,just people who give me what I want.And,when paying,this is much more easy to talk and define.When not paying,there’s that guilt about making someone lose his time:”perhaps I could wait some more time…oh,I could make an effort;poor bloke,he’s making his best…”;now,when paying,I just don’t care.I’m the client,I payed for a service;If I don’t get what I want,I say goodbye.For me,there’s no big difference between sex and paying for sex/BDSM and paying for it. If one can define a price for her/his sexual services,why shouldn’t one be able to define a price for her/his BDSM services?!Isn’t sex also a relation?!But,then again,I’m quite cynical and hate most stereotypes about how special BDSM is and all that :D.

  • I think the trouble is that because for a significant number of men being dommed as a service becomes the norm.

    I have been treated like a service. Very much so.

  • I think the problem is it’s much more socially accepted women selling their sexual services than men,as in “normal”.
    As you said,it’s sad being seen as a bargain,the same is sad to have a zipless fuck and consider it a bargain:”let me shag this slut…at least,I don’t have to pay”!

  • Bitchy said, “But I remember starting out. Other women are starting out now. And feeling what I felt. What I do might be special in the eyes of people who understand it.

    But I want everyone to understand.”

    Of course. This is one of the major reasons many of us blog. Sadly, not everyone is going to understand because we’re outnumbered by the media and those sites written as “gospel” by people whose only knowledge of all this is in their fantasies. Doesn’t stop me from trying though, because I know I’ll reach a few.

  • We can though. We can change it. We can make it better. And keep on making it better until it is fixed.

    We *can* make everyone understand.

    I believe this. And I believe it, because, damnit, I know when I’m right.

    And I’m right

  • We *can* make everyone understand

    I would like to believe it, but the fact of the matter is that—at least in my experience—very few people are actually as intellectually capable as you or me. They’re just dumb, frankly, and they won’t get it because they can’t.

    That being said, this won’t stop me from trying to make everyone understand. I just won’t try more than once on the same person in the same way, or if I feel they have otherwise proven their lack of capability to me. Gotta pick your battles.

    And you gotta pick your weapons. ;) Remind me to explain that sometime. Not now.

  • I don’t think people are dumb. People are lazy. But I’m lazy. That’s why I have a blog instead of doing real stuff and learning to do anything properly.

    Most people would be happier in a fairer world. I believe that . A lot of people are confused by what the media tells them. This is why the media is my main enemy. But the media is just people. And look at me, I’m the media now, baby.

    And, god, don’t offer me *weapons*, Maymay, that doesn’t help your who’s-clever-boy-then pose any.

  • Posts like this confuse me because the issue itself is so jumbled, my normal 3 opinions on everything multiplies into 12 or 24.

    So, in lieu of an intelligent comment, I’ll tell you a story.

    I did a crappy job of hooking up with male subs in my single days. I had no information, no internet (which while it has tons of bad information, does have some decent info if you dig hard enough). No friends or support system. One of the crappy things I did was hook up with guys for essentially one time only. (Maybe I never met the right male sub that way, or maybe I never gave anyone a chance, I can’t say, I was lacking any guidance.)

    Well, one of these guys had my work phone number. (Way to take security precautions, huh??) And he’d call me about once a year to see if I’d changed my “no, not doing it again” to a “yes, sure, go back to Home Depot and I’ll hit you with that stuff one more time”.

    One year he calls me and, I’m married by this time **which I had already told him the last time he called**, and, on top of that, my husband-at-the-time was working with me. And standing not too far from me. Guy goes into his pitch about why I just need to hook up with him again, and I say no, again, and he says (with desperation in his voice)…

    “I’ll pay you! Whatever you want!!”

    And ice water pretty much went through all of my veins. Mind you, I probably made three times what he made, what the fuck, what the fuck, what the fuck gave him the idea that this was anything about money? What the fuck you asshole?

    Having a series of one time only encounters with male subs in my history doesn’t make me proud (especially the way I handled it), but to have had an encounter with somebody who would just as soon have *paid me* to do it, that’s just a horrible memory. It makes me shudder whenever I think about it.

    I don’t have a point, just a story from my POV.

  • Once, I was with this guy, and it had been really good. *I* had been really good. And there was stuff everywhere and he was half dressed and marked and I was really in the *good* place, brain like warm pink blancmange. And he says to me:

    ‘You know, you’re really good at this. I mean *really* good. I mean, you could go professional.’

    Guess we all have a story like that, huh?

  • Yeah, so part of me says, how can somebody like him be so fucked up to confuse whatever happened between us as a free shot of something he would have paid for (the question in your post) and part of me says, how could I have been so indiscriminating to be with somebody like that in the first place.

    Again, no point, just questions.

  • My Grandmother once said (doncha love these?)

    “Never make something you love doing, your job. You’ll grow to dislike it soon enough if you do.”

    That being said, while I wouldn’t do what I love for money and I could have many times over the years, I have never frowned upon a gift. Unless, of course, it’s the sort that comes with a price and if that price wasn’t too high, I’d take it and run. I’m a bitch, like that :)

    Great post!

  • Now I’m going to ask a question. Isn’t one of the reasons this is so confusing is that there’s a world of difference between *fantasy fulfillment* and a *real power exchange relationship*?

    I can’t object to people paying for or getting paid for fantasy fulfillment. If I could buy a virtual reality game where I got to dom the world (and put little Christopher Meloni .jpgs on hunky male bodies), I’d pay for it in a second. Please, somebody build me a theme park, or a sectioned off part of Disney World, I’ll pay the outrageous parking fee.

    But I can’t help but be outraged by anyone who sees *me* as their fantasy fulfillment object. I’m not a blow up doll or a virtual reality character, even before you get to the part where I don’t take mastercard.

    Isn’t part of the problem that these two very different things get jumbled together? And somehow flesh and blood dom women constantly get confused for a ride at Disney World?

    How f’in diminishing is that.

  • I guess the problem is perceptions. Ideas. the notion that women don’t really like domination and the only women who actually do it as doing it for non clitoris related reasons. The idea that if you were really good at dommery it would be way cool to do it for money. (Ha ha, it would be, like, my nightmare.)

    But yeah, and I think you need to keep an eye on me because sometimes I do cut back so hard. I don’t want to make fantasy illegal. Or prostitution. I get a bit carried away. And it reminds me of the other day when Yellow said (on another topic), um, hey, Bitchy, aren’t the men meant to be having fun too? Which is kind of a point.

    And in a few days I will post by blow by blow (snerk) how I would love to pay for it fantasy so everyone can revel in what a hypocrite I am

  • I think this is a problem that spreads alot furthure - I have been infromed by various people on several occations that *all* women are prostitutes it just depends on weather they get a ring and a house or are walking the streets.

    I was horrified at this statement and I think it stems from the concept that sex is some how a forbidden delight that we supress and that goes for a lot of men too - the fact that everyone wants it and yet it is supposed to be something (especially in certian religous circles) that is done just for kids etc…

    I thought we had grown out of this at least 50 yrs ago but it would appear we have not - the same as I was informed I was femonazi for giving the wronge gender toys to children.

    Sorry babbling again

  • Well, yeah. I can’t see how the message that women enjoy sex, women enjoy getting fucked is so hard to understand.

    Sex feels nice. That is kind of a design feature.

  • Well I for one, believe that your femdomina is worth a great deal more than the commercial ones as it’s real. The commercial ones are there to extract a dollar or a pound and are therefore skewed to what the punters want not to what the dom wants or turns her on at all.
    Yours is the real deal, the purists femdomina, and as such is priceless. I think the kind of men who think, whee, here’s a bitch who’s giving it away are worthless and should be discarded as soon as any inkling of this attitude presents.
    I don’t think you need a plan, just make it up as you go along. You’ll eventually get to point you want, and if you don’t, who cares? You’re in it for your personal satisfaction and that is all that’s important.

  • One of the things that does get on my nerves about BDSM is how,under the cloak of “something completely different”,sexism lies alive and well!It seems most men,dom or sub,have difficulty understanding we do it for pleasure,because we like it,because it makes us wet!I’ve never “sub-ed” for money,but,as I said,I paid doms. And most of them thought I was doing that “because I need to be put on my place,because there were supernatural reasons,because Earth is round and not square,etc”. It never occurred them perhaps I was doing that because,fuck,I like it!When one of them ( ah…quite a hot one ) understood I was trying to have pleasure and that I liked to tease a tad ( quite a lot,actually),he asked this pearl ” tell me,girl,do you only speak like that to male doms?!”WTF?! I mean,what kind of question was that?Were we in some kind of Freudian BDSM session?!What happened was that,suddenly,when I was perceived as a woman who knew exactly what she wanted,and I wanted pleasure ( masochistic one,but still pleasure) I became some kind of psycho,who had issues with men!From sub to Catherine Tremell in five minutes,lol!But he was/is a temptation that’s for sure…
    The issue is female pleasure scares some men (and some women),and is considered some kind of aberration! And that’s completely freaky!

  • Does he switch?

  • ‘You know, you’re really good at this. I mean *really* good. I mean, you could go professional.’

    What it comes down to, for me, is that sexualizing the exchange of money is not negative (it’s often very sexy), but exchanging money for the purposes of engaging in or continuing to receive sexual services is called prostitution, and I don’t like that.

  • At the risk of being shouted at by every body - what exactly is wronge with prostitution?

    I think that Bitchy is right in that it shouldn’t be the defualt state but I don’t see anything wronge with it.

  • Regarding prostitution, I have this anecdote:
    In 2001 prostitution was legalized in the Netherlands. The reasons for these were many, but there were two main reasons the government brought forward:
    - Legalizing prostitution brings it out in the open, making it easier to remove the bad circumstances in which some prostitutes had to do their work.
    - If a person decides to sell their body, who are we to forbid them that? Which right do we have to forbid them to do that?

    So, that it all seemed to be for the better…

    However…
    The reaction of the prostitutes labor union was not one primarily of joy concerning their increased empowerment and legal status, as one might expect.
    The reaction was mainly one of complaining about the fact that now they would have to pay taxes…

  • Alright, bit late on this one, ’scuse my sexy ass.

    From a Male-Doms perspective I would never pay a fem to sub for me. Half the enjoyment for me comes from seeing the pleasure she gets from being humiliated etc. Plus, I just wouldn’t pay for *it* at all.

    I like to think that I’ve never had the mis-conception that women don’t have their own sexual motivations. To me it makes logical sense that if, as humans, we take pleasure out of Domming, then there was always going to be those who take pleasure from subbing. The other piece to the puzzle if you like.

    And Coralina, damn girl, you don’t have to pay for it! I’d likely sort you out for free…

  • Should I consider that a bargain,Tony :)?
    Bitchy,that’s a mystery. He’s a Gor pupil,though not a 100% one ( that’s why I was able to communicate with him),soI may ask him ;).Yeah,it’s true,I didn’t use my ice picker on him,so he’s still alive,lol.
    I think ,in a way,I can understand those who prefer paying for it,because it’s less complicated.But reducing women’s sexuality to something that should be used mainly for pleasing others,now,that’s what makes me mad!
    Perhaps I should follow yours and Elizabeth’s example and create my own blog,with tips like :” being a psycho and a sub:how to kill and being dominated :D”,etc,lol!

  • Coralina -

    Hell yes! ;)

    As long as you like being humiliated and hurt and… forced to please…

    But perhaps that’s too much for you?

  • Since I’ve got my ice picker,nothing is too much for me ;).

    “Catherine” :D

  • Jack Benimble
    May 22, 2007 at 12:17 pm

    “We can though. We can change it. We can make it better. And keep on making it better until it is fixed.

    We *can* make everyone understand.

    I believe this. And I believe it, because, damnit, I know when I’m right.

    And I’m right.”

    And you are my hero. There are some things in life that you have to believe simply because to admit to an alternative is to give up what is most important to your soul. Yellow probably gets what I’m meandering toward. I have to believe certain things in order to have the gumption to keep on striving every day toward my goals: People are basically good. Good will win out over evil. What comes around goes around. Some of these things are not necessarily provable, or even necessarily true. But I believe them.

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