April 21, 2007...9:11 pm
Surrender Dorothy
When I tell people I am a dominant woman – which I do actually do, quite often - what I want them to think is that I get to sit around eating chocolate in my pyjamas until I decide to let a very attractive well-muscled naked man do beautiful dirty things to me while I hurt him. I don’t want them to think of a PVC catsuit, stiletto thigh boots, financial transactions, strap ons, and most of all I don’t want them to think of a man looking fucking horrible in ill-fitting fucking lingerie.
See, I like a man who would run into a burning building to rescue my handcuff collection and so it’s probably best for everyone if that man isn’t wearing a lot of highly flammable pink nylon.
But, actually, really, for serious, I really do hate feminisation. And I really do think that if you are a submissive man who needs to feel like a lady to go down - then you’re pretty much a piece of shit. So it’s your fetish? Guess what? I don’t care how hard it gets you, to be dressed in frillies and called slut - it doesn’t make it okay to do that for humiliation. Sort it out. Sort out what kind of fucked up shit you have in your head that you’re making that connection between being a woman and submitting sexually.
What, so being a woman and a slut (i.e. having some sex/liking cocks/liking cocks shoved in your orifices really damn hard) is humiliating is it?
That’s bad stuff. And, you know, you know it.
There is a dark space in some men that deals with their hatred and jealousy of women is by convincing themselves that being a woman is sexually miserable. That being fucked is awful. That sucking cock is awful. That to be female is to be done to, to be used, to be sexually disregarded. To only *give* pleasure. That that is an intrinsic part of being a woman. Sub men who get themselves feminised for humiliation or punishment aren’t the only men who feel this way about women, they are just externalising a common misogyny.
If you use feminisation for humiliation, or punishment, equate it with submission, lowliness, powerlessness, sexual powerlessness, lack of sexual control, being used sexually then you are insulting me. Because I wear a pair of women’s knickers and a bra every damn day. I am also a slut by most definitions of the word. So you’re going to degrade yourself by pretending to be *me*, are you?
That’s the most degrading thing you can think of? – femininity – i.e. being more like me?
Lowering yourself to that.
Thanks. Thanks a lot.
Seriously? Still thinking this is okay? Ready to explain why I’m wrong in the comments. Sharpen your fucking pencils.
Sub men, you like a bit of dress up, don’t you? Well that’s nice. Who doesn’t? And what is it today?: Pig boy, puppy boy, pony boy, slut. Now do you see my fucking problem? That you think men are clearly so fucking superior that women are – for the purposes of humilato-dress up - at the level of, hello?, animals. Christ!
Just get this hideous fucking shit out of my kink. If you are going to continue to do crap like that go and do it in some disregarded sexual ghetto where it belongs. Not here. Not in front of proper people. Not where I might stumble on you during my abuses of Google: (man + naked + handcuffs + crying + severe lacerations)
So just keep your fucked up oppressive offensive obtuse ideas about female sexuality out of my fucking kink, okay. I’ve said it before but how about if femdom, just for a bit, stopped being so damn offensive to women and people who, you know, *like* women. How about if femdom saw femininity as a positive thing. Saw the expression of female sexuality as a positive thing. Welcomed women who wanted to be here because men screaming gets them wet. Female domination that is pro-women? That is pro-female-sexuality? Do you think that might be possible? Do you? Do you? Do you want to try it? Now? I’m ready for it. I’ve been ready for years.
I did actually once say I’d never talk about feminisation because it really is just too depressing. It still is. And I know that the kinds of people who perpetuate this stuff don’t give a shit what I think.
But this website is about the fourth result on Google for a search on ‘forced fem’. Which *surely* means that somewhere some forced fem sex website marketing people aren’t doing there jobs properly. How hard must it be to use the phrase in the title of your website and three of four times in some optimised body copy? Maybe they are being true to their feminised identities by not being able to get their silly little girlish heads around how search engines work.
But the real reason I wanted to say this stuff is because, really, fuck the misogyny. That barely bothers me anymore. I’m fucking used to it now. Equating femininity and submission pisses me off mostly because it’s just not what I find sexy. It’s the opposite of my kink. It is my anti-kink. And I hate my anti-kink being the face of my kink, you know? I am a heterosexual dom woman, masculinity and submission is what does it for me. It is meant to. That is my wiring. I want a *man* on his *knees*. Neither of things is negotiable for me.
I don’t want a male sub is present his submission as anything but masculine. To disguise his masculinity under a curly wig. Fuck that. I want to *decimate* his masculinity (Hey Latin freaks – leave it! I *know*. I’ve fucking masturbated about what decimate *really* means). But I want to be able to see his masculinity as I take it apart.
Submission is masculine. When you submit you become more masculine. It is the ultimate expression of good whole masculinity. Surrender. Be a man. Be proud of that. Be a man when you submit to a woman. Find that place. Don’t give up your masculinity before you begin, give it to *her*.
It’s masculine suffer. Their big hard bodies are made for it. Cuts and bruises and sweat and welts look good on male bodies the same way impractical clothes look good on 6 foot tall teenage girls. What the fuck else is a man’s back for? And every man looks better with a nice scar. Ask the pirates.
When a big man goes down - a real man, fuck it, yes, an *alpha* man - it’s such an awesome thing. (In the trad and the new fangled sense of awesome – it fills me with awe and it is *way* cool.)
And here’s the really weird thing about masculine submission. It has been erased from my kink and replaced by Jesus-fuck-it’s-a-man-in-a-dress – and yet it is the fuck everywhere else.
I know I said that submissive men were a cultural archetype that was untrue and unflattering – but that’s the men that are labelled as subs. Call it something else… call it, say, noble self-sacrifice and it’s bloody everywhere and bloody gorgeous and often just bloody. The tormented, tortured and suffering male body is such a staple of classical art and legend: Sebastian, Prometheus, Tantalus, Christ. I love Fight Club. I love Joseph when he sings Close Every Door to Me in Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat,
Or ask a literature scholar: Arrogant Mr Rochester – all smashed up, broken and blinded at the end of Jane Eyre finally having to swallow his pride. Sydney Carton’s ultimate sacrifice in A Tale of Two Cities… It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done…
I can’t find a single piece of decent femdom porn on the whole internet that hits these buttons for me and yet museums and art galleries and libraries are heaving with it.
I mean the fuck? Everyone else is doing this shit better than us while we’re letting our men pose around in ugly flimsies. What is *that*?
Real men submit. Submitting is the ultimate act of masculine strength. (And strength isn’t only physical.) Submitting is brave. Submitting is loyal. Submitting is noble. Nothing says strength of character like a man knowing he can get on his knees and he’ll still be able to get up afterwards.
Look me in the eye and go down - and then afterwards you can get up and do something useful with power tools.
I love a strong man who says: I am strong for you. I have all this power to give to you. I have strength in my body for you because that’s what you need. Because you like to hurt me. And you want me to be able to take it all. So here is my body for you to hurt.
I will run into those burning buildings and I will slay those dragons and I will take the pain. And afterwards, I will crawl to you begging and broken with my body marked and my cock hard. And I’ll fuck you like a man fucks a woman.
And then I’ll put those shelves up.

81 Comments
April 21, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Yes, yes, and oh fuck, yes. Spot on as usual, Bitchy.
April 21, 2007 at 10:06 pm
Thanks.
Orgasmic comments. Perfect!
April 21, 2007 at 10:07 pm
Indeed,it seems being a woman is the ultimate submission experience!
It’s not even necessary to actually perform any BDSM act…because being a woman is being submissive!
It’s pretty disgusting,even more than the strap-on,which is just another way of telling women: “hey,you just dominate if you have a cock,even a false one is worthier than your pussy!”.
April 21, 2007 at 10:47 pm
maybe it’s all down to dom being seen as prodom-only by the wider world and the idea in our culture that the customer (i.e. the sub) needs to be catered to… then the standard thing for any marketplace is to “diversify” (quote marks used ’cause its not too descriptive of this example) to atttract the most customers… then this means the try to mix it in with other kinks.. then the way people like to categorise everything it all gets lumped together in one homogenious box and marked “dom”
also… speaking from the front lines (i.e. being a man) i do tend to agree with the cliché “all men are bastards” (most anyway)
April 22, 2007 at 3:56 am
Gee Bitchy, I’m starting to think you maybe don’t like forced fem
I think perhaps you are misinterpreting one aspect of the kink. The humiliation aspect of FF is not that femininity per se is humiliating - far from it. The humiliation arises when an obviously masculine man is dressed in tackily feminine clothes and therefore made to look ridiculous.
The use of inappropriate excessive ‘femininity’ is also used in female homosocial settings too, such as on hen’s nights when the bride to be is dressed in a veil and inappropriately ’sexy’ clothes such as fishnets, low cut tops and miniskirt. Lets face it *you* would feel humiliated turning up to a play party in a see-through babydoll and g-string. It’s even more so for a guy.
Being cross-dressed and made up in a way that you can pass for a woman is not ‘forced fem’, it’s crossdressing which is a different kink altogether.
April 22, 2007 at 4:03 am
“I’ll fuck you like a man fucks a woman”.
Bit of Forced Masculinity coming across there, Bitchy
April 22, 2007 at 10:02 am
Solipsist
I don’t think I’ve misinterpreted the kink. Although I know the same kink can come from different places I really can’t buy the ‘it’s just humiliating to look ridiculous’ line. The types of clothes that are used for forced fem are *women’s* clothes. You could dress a man in trashy revealing men’s clothes if that was all it was about. But it isn’t. Hell, you could dress him as many things to ridicule him. But that’s not the kink, is it? The kink is forced *fem*
And it isn’t just the clothes. It’s the feminising names and focussing on ’sluttiness’.
I really don’t write about anything on this blog without thinking quite hard about it. This is a huge issue. And it breaks my heart. But this needs to be said
April 22, 2007 at 10:14 am
Holy crap!
I love it when you rock it fierce BJ.
I agree with you, I too would like to do some damage to dudes who equate feminism with submission et al. But…
Is what I do offensive in the same way? To humiliate and to degrade, I will sometimes force a subfem to wear something very bright and very frilly (and I would post a link as an example, but I’m not sure you would be ok with that… plus it’s dirty, really really dirty) and very feminine in a pure form. We’re talking innocence and pony tails and that sort of stuff. It’s humiliating for the girl in question and it gets me hotter then hell!
Does that equate to the same thing? I say no, but others may disagree.
April 22, 2007 at 12:00 pm
The feminisation thing is also a bit of a blank for me-though from another angle. Drawing a man dressed as a woman is trying to send a double message-he has to look male and at the same time convincingly female looking. Usually the result is not very satisfactory. Quite frankly I prefer my males to be drawn like males-whether nude or in male dress and the women to wear all the pretty clothes.
April 22, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Tony
If she’s already a woman then I don’t see the problem in you humiliating her with an aspect of femininity - or making her behave in a humiliating way. In fact I think if a woman gets off on the humilation of being called a slut then that is kind of empowering in a twisted way.
I thought about this though, and thanks for raising it, ’cause I couldn’t get it in the post.
Link to your dirty slut-lingerie if you like. I’m a big girl, you don’t scare me.
BJ x
April 22, 2007 at 12:10 pm
Sardax
Well, as I said in the post, beautiful suffering masculinity is practically the cornerstone of art.
April 22, 2007 at 12:17 pm
O you know we love it when you get on your high horse Bitchy.
I guess it’s one of the things that makes the blog so addictivly readable - the passion with which you endorse the things you like and the vehemence and bile you spill on the things you disapprove of. Noone likes a fencesitter after all.
Well said, and well argued..
April 22, 2007 at 1:21 pm
I think I’d kill myself if I ever set foot on the street,wearing bright and fluffy stuff…but depending on how attractive you’re,Tony,perhaps I’d considerate ;).
Seriously,the kink isn’t ” wearing incredibly bad taste women clothing”,but looking a women=submission. Of course I cannot generalize,but I do not know about subfem going through forced masculinization.It’s a known fact women “behaving” like men is considered empowering ,while men who adop more feminine behaviours are criticized.
BDSM may imagine it’s a superior kink separated from the rest of the society,but it isn’t:the same prejudices are here,as well.
April 22, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Bitchy
You put that in a much better way then I ever could have! And you’re so right too.
I may regret this at a later date but here’s an example of the kind of thing I might make a subfem wear (that is assuming she’s allowed to wear anything at all… it depends on my mood) -> http://www.mydivascloset.com/noname457.html
But only in the bedroom Coralina, I don’t do Domming outside (in-fact I find those that do a little creepy).
April 22, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Oh my god.
That’s so not what I was expecting.
Although I should have known.
You’re depraved
April 22, 2007 at 7:04 pm
Ok I had never come across the term before reading your blog but I do dress my husband up in female clothes - I came up with this by myself but I do not do it to humilate him and in fact have found myself helping male freinds who want to wear clothing thats considered femanine but don’t want to look rediculous.
I find myself wanting to shout at you over this post but can see that if it is done in the way you say it would be insulting.
Dressing men up was my first kink - for a start I do not see why cloths have to be gendered - I like the feel of fabrics and the look of certian cuts. Now hubby only dresses up becuase I want him too.
Of course I also do sometimes make him pretend to be a girl but this is seperate from the cloths but again this seperate to what you mention though I can see it being mistaken for it. I want a girlfriend and when clean shaven he can (and is often) mistaken for a girl.
I just feel a bit edgey that you are lumping all of this together.
Obviously I am a bit nieve about what gones on in the wider world.
Feel free to pull me to shreds.
April 22, 2007 at 7:14 pm
I don’t think what you’re talking about is the same thing.
Feminising men for humilation and degredation is what I am angry about. And the fact that that is seen as one of the core activities of femdom.
Men dressing as women is something that happens in all cultures for all kinds of reasons. Some of them make me angry. But not all.
April 23, 2007 at 12:26 am
I used to have a frilly dress up fantasy sub thing going when I was younger and purtier. Being turned into a ditsy dizzy fluff toy imitation girly was a major thrill.
From this male’s perspective the fetish was hot because it expressed a new vulnerability.
It’s quite a trip making the jump from male jeans/suits or whatever into girly frou frou with makeup and heels. It is humiliating to walk around like this knowing you’re a man in woman’s clothes. It’s also lots of fun especially when there’s a dominant woman directing the proceedings. Okay it’s not politically sound but I’m afraid a lot of kink seldom is. Also in no way is it intended to be a political statement or attempting to be taken seriously as transexualism. It’s purely a naughty sexual thrill. Gender bending Domme/sub sex play is gorgeous.
I can understand where you’re coming from and many wise women share your stance. However as a pervert I disagree and will always do what floats my disgusting little boat.
Love the blog!
April 23, 2007 at 6:19 am
Bitchy
lol! Yes, yes I am. But that’s why you love me ain’t it
Imagine wearing that… humiliating no?
April 23, 2007 at 7:55 am
Vampyra
Thinking about what you said some more I really think you should be more annoyed about men dressing in women’s clothing for humilaition than anyone if what you enjoy and see is men wearing women’s clothing as a celebration of that side of themselves.
April 23, 2007 at 7:57 am
David
A lot of people feel the way you do. At least you understand the issues. Although maybe if you understand them and don’t care that makes it worse
April 23, 2007 at 7:58 am
Tony
I can’t even begin to imagine…
April 23, 2007 at 8:20 am
Bitchy - I hadn’t realised that some men did it to be humiliated until I started reading your blog therefore I couldn’t get my head round it when that is not what I’ve seen in my own strange little world with my friends.
I’ve been dwelling on this and if it is the case then yes I am annoyed! Whats more is that I think it is probably cuasing some of my friends angst - I hadn’t made the connection before. Of course I could just be jumping to a lot of conclusions here. I think they are worried about being mistaken for the sort of man you are discribing.
April 23, 2007 at 8:21 am
Did I mean describing? Sorry spellings gone straight out of the window this morning.
April 23, 2007 at 10:53 am
i never made the connection to be honest before reading it here, too. the concept of femininity being inferior to masculinity is just completely alien to me.. so maybe thats me being blissfully ignorant but i’m really quite knowledgable so i’d take it as a sign that the world *is* changing, perhaps pathetically slowly but although people are individually going to be the same, the younger generation is growing up as different people to their parents. classic symptom of this being teenage rebellion thats only really been going on for 60 or so years, the world is growing to being a less fucked up place but unfortunately it can only really do this by just out-growing the prejudice and injustices of today’s world.
(lol)
Passion is making a come back. Go team!!
also.. can u please reply to me, i feel a bit foolish saying things that dont get answered.. of corse (spelling?) feel free to get off on the humiliation of that..
April 23, 2007 at 10:59 am
Hello Diremane
Sorry, I try and reply to everyone but I haven’t been so tight on it lately. My apologies if you have been one of the ones I’ve missed several times.
Sometimes I wonder with this blog. I am not always sure how to pitch it. A lot of people who read here not only know what forced fem is but have quite complex opinions about it. It’s a huge and multilayered subject - but things like that don’t stop me from diving in.
Other people will have never heard of it.
So I kind of pitch at me. My level of knowledge. That seems to work out. Some people can feel smug and superior that they know more - other can learn.
April 23, 2007 at 11:20 am
yea, i think that’s a huge problem with this form of expression in that, yes you can say what you want but because you can only get 2 out of 3 things we normally communicate with and thats the words we use and the context we use them in we miss out the *how* we say them leading to disunderstandings on all levels
April 23, 2007 at 11:21 am
missunderstandings* lol, helps if i dont make typos like that too
April 23, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Yes! You shred, and shred and shred until there is nothing left of that ugly ‘forced fem’ thing.
The intensity of your bitching makes for addictive reading.
Also, it seems to me that the dressing up part is only there as part of the subs kink, as a thing that the sub wants.
And that seems to be at cross purposes with the whole idea of submitting…
April 23, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Hmm, now I am starting to feel a little better about the scars on my chest. I guess I shouldnt feel so uncomfortable about not wearing a shirt.
And to think I could have had a killer tan too.
Edgar
April 23, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Aculturisation is a funny thing. Personally I think a moderm man dressed in frillies looks silly, yet thing nothing of a medieval or roman man dressed in robes or tights.
I think I might push your buttons a bit and argue I’ve never actually come across real forced fem, the victim is invariably willing. I might actually argue its worse than you put it, as so often the “forced fem” is into little girl or “slut” cloths of previous years. There’s a little bit of mummy worship or closet peadophelia hidden in there that curdles my stomach.
I’m glad you said you admitted not all feminsation was wrong in your mind. I’ve met some men for whom gender bending was just right, and few where actually subs.
As to alpha males submitting, you can’t be a real alpha and submit ;-p, or is that your point?
April 23, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Ed
I love scars
BJ x
April 23, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Boy
Well your point about how ‘forced’ these things are is just one about the whole slippery slimy isue of consent. There has to be consent, or tacit consent. In femdom, where you usually don’t have the physical strenght advantage, he could always just leave.
And why can’t I have a butch alpha sub? Don’t be so mean! But what can I say? - talking of consent issues, I like a little reticence.
April 23, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Your irreverence is infinitely appealing, Bitchy. Also, I wish was part of the f’in Bible and instilled as a foundational aspect of being manly that sinning apparently is today. But that’s a different soapbox.
Regarding the feminisation thing, I have to say that I never understood forced feminisation as a humiliating experience (I don’t really like being humiliated), but there are certainly elements of embarassment that come into play, and the subtle distinctions and gross misinformation disseminated on the part of BDSM practitioners between these two states is often what leads many people to think they enjoy one when they are talking about the other.
Check out the definitions of the words, for example.
This is something I’ve also written about before.
April 23, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Well there are minor complications. Small sub-cultures that have different motivations. Or claim to. Truth is only each male submissive can answer the question of what his motives truly are.
OTOH most of the dom women I speak to who are articulate and passionate and *true* about what they want say the same thing. Why can
I find a submissive man who can hold his masculinity when he goes down? Who can present his submission withon a male framework. The real truth is that if a male sub wants to enhance female pleasure. If that is really his heart. He needs to find a way to present that.
That is what women want.
April 23, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Also, I need to write about humiliation
April 23, 2007 at 6:58 pm
I think the idea “alpha - males” don’t submit is a bit well…”duh”. We’re speaking about sex,and I don’t see why a person who enjoys being hurt cannot be a confident and masculine one. Straight women normally enjoy fucking men,why should straight dom women being portrayed as liking to fuck less masculine man?!
April 23, 2007 at 7:05 pm
Well I bloody hope so. If I don’t get to hurt masculine alpha men on a regular basis I might get tetchy.
April 23, 2007 at 7:45 pm
oh now then, you’re all talking of alpha male subs as though you’re trying to find ways around reasons why not… alpha male isnt the same as alpha person, i think it’s quite possible for an alpha *male* to submit to a female without any damage to his masculinity, in fact if you track human instinct back to the time of “alpha male” then that’s pretty much how that works for humans - be the best alpha you can be and hope the women choose you..
April 23, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Actually,alpha-male is an ethological expression,poorly adapted.If I’m not mistaken, it was never scientifically applied to humans,even because no one knows that well how primitive human communities behaved.
I think that expression was being used here in quite a humourous way and,in this context,we all know what it means.
But I confess I’d rather hurt Tony than a consumed submissive…it’s just more twisted this way :D!
April 23, 2007 at 9:33 pm
I thought that the size gender ratios of humans show that (if we work like other primates) that in our past we have basicially undertaken all the sexual combinations as normal at some point.
I think that it works that becuase females are still on average slightly smaller there was a lot of more than one girl to every boy but the fact that alot are on par also means it was one on one - cerial monogamy etc… Of course this all came from a very out dated book so is probably all balls.
Scratching head trying to remember if I read this in a Desmond Morris book or somewhere else :/
p.s. it said that there was evidence for more than one guy per woman to be have been normal too but I don’t do this sort of soft science/sociology so should probably shut up now.
Though I’m sure the abscense of a bone in the penis is supposed to be the guys showing off for a mate.
April 23, 2007 at 9:34 pm
grr - sorry Bitchy no idea why I actually posted that comment - delete as applicable.
April 24, 2007 at 12:55 am
i’d have absolutely no social life if i couldn’t randomly steer the conversation off on random tangents..
just to clarify on what i said about alpha males there, dont worry im not trying to sound like i know all about its just conjecture based of modern observations of our instincts and how other animals that work with similar social consciousness like wolves or something.. hey i’m still talking out the wrong end really, but what the hey
April 24, 2007 at 5:36 am
I, for one, wonder aloud what you would write about when “tetchy” if this is not already it, Bitchy.
Also, it is an interseting point (for me, anyway) that when I think of my attraction to men, it is often masculine alpha men who I want to have hurting me. I mention this because it has not gone unnoticed by me that there is a part of my feminine nature that enjoys society’s constructs of male and female power exchange, even knowing that they are falsely manufactured. Frankly, it’s an “in,” but the difference I see in the way I approach it versus the way most people do is that I feel as though I have my eyes wide open when I’m referencing it.
Of course…I guess everyone feels that way, so what good is that feeling? Le sigh, I should blog on my own blog again.
April 24, 2007 at 6:27 am
Coralina
erm… was that a back-handed compliment?
Nobody hurts Tony. Tony does the hurting.
lol
April 24, 2007 at 6:42 am
Wow, just by reading this I feel perverted and freakish in a way I haven’t in years. Considering the ten years of internet exposure, this is Great. It’s even more spectacular that we agree on certain points. Being dominated by a female has never been my bag, I am power hungry and like the concept of dominating others better, but I’ve never begrudged another their desire to be submissive. Everybody has his or her thing. But where we come together is that I, too, have always held a certain disdain for the professional dominatrix. There is something prudish and undesirable about the woman who doesn’t roll up her sleeves and “get their hands dirty,” i.e. get her rocks off, too. To make the situation even more repugnant, they even get paid for it. Sounds so dry, fake, and un-exciting. In my mind, the power to break another to serve your own sexual purpose seems much more erotic and fulfilling. The more powerful the prey, the better. The fact that there is the femine version of the master surprised me. Apparently judging from your commentators there’s a fair number of you out there. Which is exciting. What I’ve been wondering lately, though if the changing roles of modern gender are producing a more aggressive and dominate female?
April 24, 2007 at 9:04 am
I doubt the changing gender roles are producing this - Take a look at ancient Rome and even the Bible and you’ll see what I mean.
Within our society there seems to be a fifty year turn around of ideas and what is acceptable and talked about like the flappers in the twenties verses the restrictions until the ‘revolution’ of the sixties. Then there’s all all the bohemian stuff extra but the victorians went in for supression of desire and ‘excess’ in all forms.
I can’t remember the name of the poets but at the beginning of Victorian period it was perfectly acceptable for a male friend to visit his sick female friend in her bedroom but 50 yrs later a woman could not even talk to a man on her own without damaging her reputation.
I think all types of people with all types of taste exist all the time but there is a question of when they feel able to express themselves or indeed when it is safe to do so.
Mew - I think I also need to get back to my own blog! :/
April 24, 2007 at 11:31 am
‘I can’t find a single piece of decent femdom porn on the whole internet that hits these buttons for me and yet museums and art galleries and libraries are heaving with it.’
Perhaps this is an indication that far from being a kink, female dominance is much more culturally mainstream than women like to admit. The power is there for those with the courage to take it.
I was certainly brought up to act with deference towards women and if they can find their way to my submission from that start then so be it.
I’m not really sure whether it is any worse for a woman to be stereotyped as a submissive cock hungry slut rather than a sadistic cock hungry slut. Perhaps I should be slapped for my impertinence, and maybe slapped again for continuing to look you in the eye…
I should really stay off this site at work.
April 24, 2007 at 11:55 am
Maymay
If you really think you can dangle the image of you being slapped around my some huge bloke with arms like tree trunks and then expect me to make an intelligent comment about the gender politics of that, you are really over estimating me.
Just send me a DVD, okay.
BJ x
April 24, 2007 at 11:58 am
Logan
I wish femdom was about women getting turned on. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem to work that way. What with the intrigued doms and the guys in their chastity belts this barely deserves to be called a sexuality.
April 24, 2007 at 11:59 am
Deepsleeper
It’s probably male submission that is ‘mainstream’, rather than female dominance.
Now get back to work. God, I hope you’re not a brain surgeon or anything
April 24, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Bloody right.
Because however much I sub, and however much I dom- what is the point in having a man around the rest of the time who can’t fix things? Who isn’t stronger than me? And who won’t do what I tell him to do?
But a man in my underwear just looks silly. Besides, he might tear the lace. If I want pretty in silk, I’ll look for a girl, not some guy who can’t fill the cups of a bra without looking totally pointless.
Hard-on or no hard-on. After all, I’m the one looking.
Keep going, Bitchy. I’m really enjoying it.
April 25, 2007 at 12:54 am
I love your blog. And the catchy name, too. I absolutely agree with the masculinity of suffering for a woman’s pleasure. And then giving it to her hard.
April 25, 2007 at 4:49 am
Well, yeah! Good
April 26, 2007 at 11:17 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YKINOK
we all could use a little more tolerance, since is seems to be lacking here
April 27, 2007 at 7:26 am
http://freaksexual.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/your-kink-does-not-get-a-free-pass/
April 30, 2007 at 1:08 am
I think some of your defintion is that of a good man, sub, vanilla, whatever. That they have enough strength of character to know they can kneel down and stand up afterwards and that they are noble and loyal. Good men.
May 2, 2007 at 3:25 am
I love a guy in his frillies and eye makeup. Especially if he’s completely at ease like that, or is at least flirty and pleased about it. Same reason slutty dressing is sexy on a woman — overt sexual signaling and physical vulnerability. I like a man who can sense that, use it, and not feel that it demeans him or that it demeans any woman who dresses like that. Dude, the clothes gotta fit, though. The hell with humiliation.
That said, yeah, I’m all about the sooty fireman on his knees, too. Hoo.
May 2, 2007 at 7:14 am
My 1,000th comment. And with a fireman on his knees in it.
Lovely
May 2, 2007 at 10:34 pm
I’ve lurked a bit perusing your blog and relishing your cutting wit and frank approch. I am so very glad my Missus brought your writing to my attention.
Minor introduction aside, I myself have felt this way since childhood. Maybe it was the U.S. Marine father, my penchant for tales of King Arthur and his Knights or the Greek Tragedy I revelled in as a boy- who knows? Regardless, I concur most heartily that a man is at his very best serving those who are dearest around him, acting as sword and shield to his most highly regarded Ladies, and never disgracing himself.
Add a bit of kink to that, and my life is bliss.
I never understood feminisation for the same reasons you noted, and find the concept just as insulting as you appearantly do, and can only hope more men are like myself- of a mind to cull these virulent and profane notions that equate femininity with shame, weakness, debasement and humiliation from society.
Some solace I found in a fantasy series you might enjoy; The Black Jewels Trilogy by Anne Bishop. No romance novel, solidly of the fantasy genre and obviously of no challenge to your intellect, but contains the threads of that purely masculine service woven throughout- and several male torture scenes I believe you would enjoy.
Please consider them, I would be delighted to hear if you considered it time well spent.
May 21, 2007 at 5:34 am
Once upon a time, I had close friends, a couple. D/s, among many wide and varied interests in their lives. Both of them brilliant. He was handy, an electrician, a guy you could go to with a broken down anything, and he would eventually help you fix it. They were into forced feminization, and it was beautiful and sexy and raw. Much like Vampyra’s descriptions. He could really take a beating. She really liked to make him cry so that his mascara would run. I miss them.
June 2, 2007 at 3:37 am
It’s funny, but in all the discussions I’ve seen about why women authors abuse/torture/rape/humiliate characters in slash fiction, I don’t think I’ve ever seen it suggested that it’s because they are *sadists*. But obviously there’s a lot of women out there who get off on seeing strong men “begging and broken.”
June 29, 2007 at 5:03 am
I had a bit of a rant all planned out….
And then I read the comment: “She really liked to make him cry so that his mascara would run.”
And now I can’t quite think clearly.
I love LOVE *screaming* LOVE that. Love. Adore. Lust.
Which actually leads a bit into my rant… While I get the gist of this being that you don’t much care for the prevalence of feminization being linked to you … to femdom… And while I get the point you are making about puppy, pony, slut play. I don’t see them all on the same plane. I don’t surf much femdom porn, so I can’t say what is out there (I’d surf more if it was GOOD, but … from what I’ve seen… eh… yawn… and if porn, much less kinky porn makes me yawn, what is the point)… but what I can say is that feminization isn’t ALL what you describe it as.
I adore dressing men… masculine, bicep bulging, highly fuckable men up as women. And I love pointing out how silly they look (yay humiliation), and I love pointing out how they don’t look as good as women do dressed up as women… it’s sick, it’s twisted, it’s probably wrong (I f’n HOPE so) to most people out there. But I love pointing out that their own ideals of beauty (i.e. the feminine) can’t be achieved by them. (meow)
I love the mind trip of THAT.
I also love the mascara and eyeliner making little tear tracks down their beautifully masculine cheeks as I hurt them. (oh god)
The feminine isn’t humiliating for being feminine. It’s not, “now you’re nothing but a girl.” It, for me, highlights what is masculine about them and, for them, highlights that it is ME (or whatever female) that makes all the “trappings” of femininity sexy. After all, the makeup and wigs and clothes and panties don’t make them female… it highlights what they are missing, the female essence. Not sure if I’m describing it clearly, or if it can be described clearly. Personal stuff tends to get a bit blurry when public, and sexy stuff can tend to go bland when written out in words.
Now, one last rant, I cringe when I see someone defending the right to claim their own individual expression of what makes their panties wet, then decry that what makes my panties wet is wrong wrong wrong. Cringe worthy. If you don’t dig it… then, Uberfabulous, don’t do it.
I agree that alot of what I see out there doesn’t represent what I am or do as a dominant woman. (Rarely do I ever see a domme showing the giggling, happy sort of vibe I get… they usually look like their latex is too tight and pissing them off, or if they are laughing, it is a dentist’s office manic fake laugh… where is the fucking fun???) But if someone’s severe? If they don’t show their fun the way I do? Does that make them wrong? Eh. Not for me to say.
Oh fucking hell, I can’t stop thinking about running eyeliner over his cheeks…………….
June 29, 2007 at 7:26 am
A lot of people have told me off about this post being a rant about a kink that isn’t mine. It’s a really tricky one. I think vast swathes of forced fem are not okay.
This, basically: If you use feminisation for humiliation, or punishment, equate it with submission, lowliness, powerlessness, sexual powerlessness, lack of sexual control, being used sexually then you are insulting me.
Other kinds of feminsation - like the stuff you describe - yeah, possibly that’s different. However I still think that every time you dress as man as a woman and use that to humiliate him you need to be careful what symbols you are associating with humiliation. Men dress as women for a variety of reasons in every culture on earth. Be careful out there.
July 1, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Oy vey, Bitchy, practically every post of yours I read reminds me of a rant I want to do on my blog, I’ve got half done posts all over the place now, dammit.
On this occasion, it’s humiliation. I’m going to do something about humiliation vs embarrassment. I’ve had that conversation before, but I’d like to rant about it.
But not here, you’ll be glad to hear.
October 14, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Hmmm… I know I’m coming very very late into this party, but I think there’s a significant taint of a double standard going on here.
(A) It’s great to take a man with all the trappings of masculine success, and relish the “inherited power” of handcuffing and beating him.
(B) It’s a huge insult to take a man and garb him with all the trappings of the converse of masculininity (i.e. feminity) precisely because doing that puts him at a psychological disadvantage.
You have to some kind of social retard to absolutely equate feminity with submission, but if one can get an extra frisson from dominating a man with the accessories of power _because_ of those accessories, it’s rather hypocritical to claim that people who get an extra frisson from _replacing_ those same accessories with the stereotypical opposite of them are somehow committing a mortal insult.
You see, a man in a frock is not the same as a woman. They have an energy which is uniquely their own, just as a woman in a stereotypically male outfit has her own energy. And more power to them all.
Even when a given culture tends to empower one gender more than the other (and obviously that’s usually males over females), there are obvious counter-stereotypes: “She Who Must Be Obeyed”, Mama-San in Japan, the competent women supporting the incompetent man. Those stereotypes do exist, so you can’t honestly equate all women with the submissive role (remember Denis Thatcher? ’nuff said!)
Obviously, this is a hot button for you. And that’s fine. But you probably wouldn’t be too happy with (say) Jewish people whose deepest darkest kink is to play the role of people in Nazi concentration camps… yet those people exist, and they have the connections with relatives who died in the camps, and it is perhaps “survivors guilt” that is driving some of that kink. I don’t know — but then I don’t go around assuming that they must be sick…
Not every man can play the part of the CEO of a Major Company so that you can enjoy forcing him to submit. For some, the removal of what they have, the “you’re not even fit to wear the same sort of clothes as that CEO” thing, is what works for them. It’s the same dynamic, just at the other end of the spectrum!
By the way, in the kink world, off the top of my head the movies “Exit to Eden” and “Personal Services” both deliver characterizations of female dominance and male submission that defy your assertions of stereotypes.
October 15, 2007 at 7:43 am
(B) It’s a huge insult to take a man and garb him with all the trappings of the converse of masculininity (i.e. feminity) precisely because doing that puts him at a psychological disadvantage.
Puts him at a psychological disadavantage! Um, why are you being so cagey? Was it too much to type that a man feminises himself because that is humiliating?
I like the idea that my partner is powerful. That’s very hot for me. It’s not the same. I equate stuff like muscles with physical strength. I equate erections with betrayal of hidden desire. Forced fem guys equate humilation with wearing lingerie and make up. And sometimes penetration by a phallic object to make the point really clear.
I don’t actually equate being a CEO with male power. Fiscal power is boring. I’m not a fucking prodom.
I have no idea why you are tallking about female dominated cultures. Do any really exist? Female supremacy is totally boring to me except in a few very specific masturbatory fantasies.
I also have no idea why you are talking about the nazi fetish. I have no problem with the nazi fetish. I have no problem with black people who get off on playing being the slaves of white people. I have no problem with female submissives who like to play with femininity and be called slut. All inequity play has roots somewhere. There’s a big difference between using what you are and playing with ideas of lowering your status by taking on the trappings of a social group you oppress the hell out of most of the rest of the time. How would you feel about a white person who wanted to black up and play slave? That would piss me off in the same way. Straight guys being humiliated by being “forced” to be gay also bugs me.
Exit to Eden and Personal Services are both horrible films that show dominant women as latex encased whores.
October 15, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Traditionally, by introducing Nazi fetishes into this thread it should be declared closed in violation of Godwin’s law. But I am clearly not going to declare anything on Bitchy’s journal, ’cause it is hers, and she has way better hair than me. I just wanted to mention that trying to decide if the Nazi fetish is applicable under Godwin’s law had some quirkiness to it that was quite enjoyable.
October 15, 2007 at 4:09 pm
I’d never disallow a comment that said you hate forced fem so I bet you hate nazi fetish.
Blah blah blah
October 15, 2007 at 6:22 pm
there are obvious counter-stereotypes: “She Who Must Be Obeyed”, Mama-San in Japan, the competent women supporting the incompetent man.
Those women are all submissive to men. Well, two of them are. All I know about the third is that there was once a man who called me that to belittle me (nonconsensually).
iirc there’s one genuine matriarchy in the world, somewhere in central India. Anything else is just something someone made up to fit with their political position/fetish/fragile ego.
October 15, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Why do people bring up (fake) matriarchies so much to support misogynistic behaviour?
November 29, 2007 at 10:52 pm
Bitchy,
I’ve been spending all my free hours for the last couple of weeks reading your blog. I’m really loving it. I’ve just recently admitted to myself that all those dreams and stuff were in fact because I was a Dom(me), and not because, I don’t know, I was a ropemaker in my last life or something. So I went blogsearching, and you’re one of my new favourites. And I’m so relieved that someone else feels this way about the forced fem thing! I thought we were all supposed to just ignore the oxymoron, and I’m not good at ignoring things. Now, if I should happen to find a guy who wants me to “force” him to dress up like a ridiculous version of me (not that I’m ever likely to wear anything frothy and pink, but you know what I mean), I can just send him here and you can knock some sense into him!
NomSecret, (who is also relieved that I don’t necessarily have to learn how to walk in heels)
November 29, 2007 at 10:58 pm
Yay! I caught another one.
Good luck!
December 22, 2007 at 10:19 pm
I’m not into any sort of “alternative sexuality,” but I find it interesting (and hot) to read about it. The way this makes the most sense to me is to think of it as breaking a wild animal. To get a wild horse to let you ride it is a lot more powerful and pleasurable than to do the same to a docile animal. You have to have strength to begin with in order to submit. How can you hand over power to someone else unless you had it to begin with?
Also, I wonder if as you say, many people see feminisation as submission, I wonder if it doesn’t get you off because feminized men don’t have as “far to fall,” so to speak. Subconsciously, they’re already partially there.
(That last part might not make any sense, but it did in my head.)
January 4, 2008 at 2:12 am
it seems to me that you could use this same criteria to criticize any fetish that in any way parallels a real life power imbalance. do you similarly object to male dominants with female submissives, age play of any sort, white dominants with non-white submissives, and pet roleplay? if not, why not those too? all of those situations are even more direct reflections of imbalances that exist[ed] in society, so by your standard anyone that participates in them is making a mockery of people that were hurt in that situation?
it sure seems like you’re not only imposing your personal interpretation on other people’s actions, but you’re judging them solely based on that interpretation and not on the results of their actions themselves. if you don’t like the activity, don’t do it. but if the two people involved in the activity don’t believe that they’re intending to degrade women with what they’re doing, then intervening to apply your interpretation of their actions and then condemning them based on that interpretation is awfully presumptuous.
January 5, 2008 at 10:09 am
These are my personal interpretations - this is a sex blog, not an academic paper - but I also think the argument that forced feminsiation for humiliation is fucking misgynistic shit is pretty rigorous.
Your examples of mandom/femsub and white doms with non-white parters are something different. People with some kind of social power gap in real life having a relationship which plays with power gaps (their real one - that they own) is very, *VERY* different from forced fem - which is more like a white submissive blacking up in order to be lower status.
But not exactly. One of the first things to remember about minoirities/equality type arguments is you can’t just compare one group with another because each one is different and faces different prejudices.
For example women are different from animals, fuckface.
And really, if your best argument against me is to say that humilating a man by making him into a woman is okay becasue it is only like humiliating him by making him into a pig is, then you win today’s stupid biscuit.
Congratulations. It is a very stupid biscuit.
Femdom is full of broken and woman hating and I am angry as fuck.
January 5, 2008 at 3:47 pm
the fact that you’re angry is obvious, but if your entire argument is “it’s different because it’s different”, then why bother? my argument is not that all these situations are the exactly the same, my argument is that your interpretation of a situation is not necessarily the underlining reason that someone else is involved in it, and therefore the fact that your interpretation is objectionable doesn’t reflect on their actions.
i’ll check back in a year to see if a battered spouse has come on here to accuse you of mocking their situation by confining and beating your partner, i suppose that will be different because it’s different also and you’ll still be right
January 5, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Yeah, why bother? ‘Cause femdom is working just fine. It’s a lovely place that is open and welcoming to women. And the first thing it does to welcome them is tell them that feminity is something they can ‘force’ on men to humilate them.
Why bother complaining about that?
March 12, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Oh wow, you are making me think about this.
What if i just like to wear panties because they are sexy, quite sexier than tighty whities?
What if i am humiliated, not because i am wearing panties, but what would society think about me for wearing them?
i definitely don’t want to degrade Women, but it just makes me feel naughty, like i have a secret that no one knows. Can’t we have a panty fetish without it being offensive?
i still consider myself to be a hero as a submissive, but heroes like soft lacy things as much as the next person.
Really, i am too confused right now.
March 19, 2008 at 2:29 pm
I should be asleep, dammit.
I think the point’s more “Liking frilly stuff because it feels nice” is ok. “Being turned on by the humiliation of being made into a woman” is not.
Say we made up some completely ridiculous thing. Say, everyone with brown hair has to wear green shoes, and that brown haired group has been socially condescended upon for the last eternity, though in reality, they’re as equal in everything as everyone else is. Assume for all these examples that the figurative ‘you’ isn’t brown haired.
You happen to like green shoes. That’s cool, I don’t think anyone’s going to shoot you for that. Or, just the same, you happen to think someone else in green shoes is the hottest thing ever, but you also really like blondes.
Equating being brown haired to being inferior, and therefore attempting to represent that brown haired-ness by wearing green shoes, isn’t so cool, and is even less cool when the green shoe wearing is ‘forced’.
Thinking that brown haired people in green shoes is a really aweosomely hot look, and being brown haired yourself (ok, this is one example that you can ignore that bit back up there), and getting a blonde to wear green shoes and saying ‘hey, I look better in these than you do’ is cool as well, I think.
I’m not sure, though. I rarely am. I could very well be putting words into people’s mouths that are entirely wrong. But that’s pretty much my take on it, and I’ve tried to generalise it in such a way that it takes all the male/female stuff out of it all.
It’s not so much the action, it’s the attitude. That’s one thing I am sure of.
But it still doesn’t explain why you see heaps of girls in jeans walking down the road, but no guys in dresses. And I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not going to go walking down the street in a dress either.
May 14, 2008 at 9:52 pm
As someone who likes to switch, but really is not interested in sub men…I have to say that this post really, really makes me want to try topping a guy like that. It sounds rather a lot more appealing than what usually seems to be expected, if that makes any sense. And it’s a connection I hadn’t really made before, the misogyny in a lot of sub men, because it’s obvious once you think it through, but it is sort of counterintuitive.
If we’re going to do a scene where I’m going to be a sex object, then I damn well want to get to be the bottom in that scene.
So…yeah. Thank you for this post. It’s given me something profound to think about that I had pretty much just avoided in the past. (Does it say something terrible about me that it was easier to just enjoy hurting girls than to face crap with men? Probably.)
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