One of the odd things about Club Pedestal – which is entirely not the fault of Club Pedestal itself, just something I noticed for the first time really being out and about among my ilk for the first time in forever -: it really is funny how money changing hands changes everything.
And how men’s desirability index being not their actual attractiveness but the size of their wallets can undermine women – and the concept of female desire – in so many ways.
I suppose I would have seen the same thing if I lived in Los Angeles. Or is I some other way hung out with rich, rich men and their gold digging trophies, but I don’t. Maybe it would have been less of a surprise if I watched a lot of Hollywood films. But I don’t.
So, okay, sure femdom isn’t the only place were men are judged on their ability to pay rather than their fuckability – but god, nowhere else is male-liquidity made such a fucking thing. Time and again and more often than not men pay to be here. Oh, how humiliating.
Humiliating for who?
Because in the world of femdom you see these wonderfully stunningly attractive slightly ludicrously dressed women with these funny looking saggy little men. There was some eye candy at Pedestal (there was this short shaven-headed guy in a bright red jacket for example…oh, and this awesomely god looking black guy…) but there was far, far more for, say, Jack to look at than there was for me.
And it was particularly notable in the way a whole bunch of couples were paired up.
I live in a world where mostly, if you are around couples they are of similar relative attractiveness. Most of the world works like this. Psychologists use their sloppy-science to test it endlessly. And it’s a comforting kind of order. But in femdom most couples appear to have taken their Mr and Mrs crib notes from the Catherine Zeta Jones and Michael Douglas school of appropriate pairings.
Or possible Gollum and precioussssss.
Here’s my real problem with the beauty and the beasting that covers femdom like a weeping rash: Back on Thursday night, amongst the willow trees of the almost-pretty-enough-to-be-a-proper-model dominatrixes and the tiny, whiny, dumpy men who had rented the women’s arm and ankle space, my brain played tricks, making me think like, god, if she’s with a dweeb like him then what sort of dregs will a nothing like me get?
Now sure, I have my shallower moments, but I’m not being some kind of physicality fascist. No man has to be Superman. (Although it is nice.) The problem here is the differential. The disparity between the attractiveness of the men and the attractiveness of the women.
I’m sure a bunch of prodoms of amdoms who do that apply-to-escort-me thing will tell me that I am being shallow, judging on looks. And that they are looking a the fully rounded wallet picture of a person. And probably also that they are being feminist, because hey there Bitchy ‘ugly, bitter, probably really a man’ Jones, *I* am a feminist so therefore everything I do with my life is *feminist*. That’s how feminism works Bitchy Jones, don’t you even know that? And if you don’t like my lifestyle choice hey, you’re restricting a woman’s choice. A *woman’s* choice. Damn, Beej, what are you, a pro-lifer or something? Don’t you know feminism is about women doing everything they want evah! Reach for the sky, sista. It’s my choice to shit all over other women’s sexualities so long as it turns me a profit. And I call myself a feminist therefore it is feminist. Plus, don’t you see what I’ve done, Bitchy Jones? Don’t you see how clever I am? I am making money! Me! A woman! How revolutionary and feminist is that. Off a male-fantasy projection onto my sexuality. Sexual power = actual power, Bitchy Jones. Or it does if you’re a woman. And see the clever. He is paying me to spank him. Spank him. Ha ha. What a loser. Spank him and then wank him off watch him wank off send him home frustrated. And then I will make him dress up as a woman to humiliate him and strap a cock to myself at a slightly unpromising angle and make him *worship* it. Ha ha. He worships my cock. And pays me. What, Bitchy Jones, mind you what could be more fucking feminist that?
And I have to answer that really nothing, a great big yawning void of nothing and broken souls would be more feminist than that.
I am shy. I do not dress up. I do not like to be judged on the way I look. I do not test well on that. I do not enjoy emerging from a stairwell to men greeting me on their knees. I do not want to roar up in a centaur-drawn rickshaw wearing a diamond-studded catwoman outfit. But sometimes it feels like the only way into femdom land is through that adore-me door. Could femdom clubs have another entrance for women like me? Ones who want to sneak in a feel comfortable – not be hailed as a goddess/mistress/saviour of the fucking universe by men we haven’t even been properly introduced to?
And I am not comfortable among a bunch of women who like to sit in a spotlit chair with men groveling all around them just for existing. Sometimes I feel like femdom is just all the very worst things from mandom – the things that get complained about most like the asshat mandoms, the fucking stupid this is the natural order of things – and femdom doesn’t get called on that shit because it has pulled some joke trick that is somehow empowering for women (clue: it isn’t – exploring your own desires is what empowers you.) So femdom gets away with this shit that we are justifiably appalled by in mandom and even worse, there is nothing *else* in femdom. Nothing that isn’t festering fucking shit.
I want something more charming. Quieter. Something more thoughtful. More intelligent. Femdom is charmless, brash and stupid. Femdom has no sense of irony and no sense of fashion. No aesthetics. No class (calling yourself milady and wearing jodhpurs is not classy – quite the opposite in fact.). No delight. No wonder. No magic. No art. No fucking idea.
Femdom is all high contrast. Red, black, white. Men crawl – women rule.
It’s crying out for some notion that we are in this together. That submissive men and dominant women need each other. That we can be equal partners in our fantasies of inequity. God, does femdom ever need to learn that lesson.
More genuine, and fuckit, I’ll say it *lifestyle* femdom/mansub couples would change this place over night. But the fact is the defining relationship in femdom is dominatrix/client. (And I’m becoming more and more convinced that the second most frequent occurring relationship is mandom/dom-for-pay femsub – (a) WTF? Why is this even here? And (b) guess how much the ‘it’s natural’ mandom asshats love to see that shit.)
Femdom is crying out for some fucking humanity.
Also for tea, cocktails and cupcakes. But that’s another post.
Course (and all carping aside in order to make way for some closing paragraphs featuring random showing off about my hot boyfriends) I did have to keep reminding myself – despite the disparity in a lot of couples I saw – dumpy street-clothes me was with the best looking, best dressed man there. Me and Jack are a tiny blip in the system – rather like I am a tiny fuck-happy blip in the world of femdom. Because he is way too good looking for me.
Both him and Pan are miles above me. Pan really does look just like Matthew Fox. Jack looks like Mr Incredible. I’m very lucky. And I built all my luck myself.
At Club Pedestal, I carried a collar for Jack Incredible in my bag for him in case he needed it to get in. (I wasn’t sure.) But as he said in his dark, bad voice – beeswax, buttermilk – he was actually wearing a collar.
Two in fact. One on his shirt and one on his jacket.
I built all my luck myself.
44 Comments
June 6, 2008 at 12:34 am
Another wonderful post.
June 6, 2008 at 2:58 am
Oh, Bitchy, I didn’t realize how much I missed you!
June 6, 2008 at 2:59 am
Too good looking for you? Obviously not, or they wouldn’t be with you, correct?
June 6, 2008 at 4:15 am
From what I’m reading, the only person who is hung up on the beauty thing seems to be… you.
There’s no mention made of your being mistreated for not gussying yourself up like a dreadful pro. And you’ve got two hot guys. (I’m an evil pro/half-assed art model and I’ve only got the standard one-sub deal.)
It sounds like you get up to some awesome play at home. It sounds like Jack and Pan are totally cool with you not wearing latex and stilettos to bed. So, I’m a bit confused as to how pro dommes in catsuits are hampering your sexuality.
Finally, I don’t know how it works in the UK, but here there are parties that attract a lot of pro dommes and others that are more for lifestylers. Maybe you should be hanging out at the latter? People are less inclined to dress, and play goes on (if that’s what you’re after.)
June 6, 2008 at 5:28 am
That is very interesting. I went to the previous club pedastal event and I admit to not noticing this. There were a lot of not-particularly-attractive guys on their own trying to lick my shoes, but most of the guys I noticed as being with specific women were quite traditionally attractive.
I noticed as well that while most people made some token effort, there seemed to be a few women there in mundane going out clothes, which was nice. I don’t know that I noticed more than one or two pros, but my eye is not attuned like yours.
I have just started my blog, and I realised that there should be some sort of consise term for the ‘get the stupid out of femdom’ movement. Something we can wear on badges and stuff!
June 6, 2008 at 5:37 am
BDSM in general has neither aesthetics nor sense of irony. I laugh every time I see a scenester claiming how transgressive, taboo-breaking, non-conformist and unconventional they and all their clubgoing friends are – it must just be *coincidence* that they’re all wearing almost-identical outfits, then.
June 7, 2008 at 11:50 pm
I like the “I built my luck myself” line. Reminds me of a kinky Little Red Hen. Wouldn’t that be a different story if you were she? The Cat and The Dog would be chained out in the wheat field, The Duck would be in the back room building porn out of coconuts, and there you are with delightfully uncombed feathers, sipping a cup of tea and sorting through your handcuff collection. And they all (or anyway most of them — I have a feeling Mr. Sir Wolf is in for a nasty surprise later) live happily ever after.
June 8, 2008 at 2:08 am
I like this blog. I may not agree with all your views, but I must admit, you are a thinking woman. Looking forward to really exploring this blog when my schedule lightens up a bit.
June 8, 2008 at 3:38 am
I agree that it’s super annoying to always see beautiful women with yucky men. There is something fundamentally unfair about it. It’s a snapshot image showing the imbalance in sexual entitlement. You might as well hold a sign up saying, “Men deserve to have whatever they want, and women should take what they can get.”
June 8, 2008 at 9:26 am
hmmm what if my idea of what is beautiful isn’t the same as yours? Chances are pretty good it’s not. Sounds like some people just want something to whine about. Granted this is mostly for Ms. Madison this time because chances are the women at the club were with the guys they were getting paid to be with. Still. geeze “yucky” so shallow. Still hope you get all that you deserve
June 8, 2008 at 12:36 pm
I think there are submissive men who deliberately don’t explore their individual potential for handsomeness, and reproduce the negative stereotype by purposely uglifying themselves in real life kink contexts out of self-hatred and possibly the notion that, in “femdom”, looking as repulsive as possible is expected of them. The stereotype of submissive men as despicable and unsexy is hateful and harmful to all parties concerned.
Come on guys, don’t let the ignorant haters win. Find your potential for beauty, and let it shine.
One of the absolutely worst examples I’ve seen online so far embodying the “dolled up female & despicably unattractive male” stereotype are the illustrations on the pages of this site: http://www.femdomforum.com
It’s mainly a porn-swapping site. The women in the drawings aren’t women, they are dolls in fetish drag. The male figures aren’t even men, they are distorted, creepy lumps of flesh. And I think I must apologise for linking to this to you, Beej, and to any person who is sexually attracted to submissive men (as I am), as well as to all the submissive men who don’t happen to go in for self-loathing and repelling women. It’ll really ruin your mood.
So, afterwards, please scrub your eyes and detox looking at your partner, or at Hot Female Dominant Utopia or somewhere.
June 8, 2008 at 3:24 pm
God. Just… urgh. What?
How did this thing, this thing inside me, this thing that is the most beautiful exciting kind of sex, get turned into, uh, that? Just again, what?
And why do those women look so happy? If I was dressed so uncomfortably and all I had for a partner was a shapeless lumpen mass I’d be very pissed off indeed. Their triumphalism is strangely misplaced.
I think you are right that submissive men quite often embrace this idea that they should look sexless and shitty. Take the often trotted out defence of forced fem that it is not about looking like a woman, it is about looking unsexy and ridiculous. Oh, well, thanks for that.
Seriously, how did the internal logic of femdom go this far off the rails? I want a woman who is demanding, a perfectionist, a *goddess* amongst women. Oh, and so that means she would logically want a boyfriend who looked like a piece of shit…
Er…
June 8, 2008 at 9:02 pm
The logic is there when it’s not about boyfriends but clients. If he presents himself and acts attractively and sexily, someone might become interested in him and he might become a non-client. Too bad there are men who fall for this.
June 8, 2008 at 9:17 pm
It comes down to that so often, doesn’t it? What would happen if submissive men found out there were women who were actually into this? Well the tills would stop ringing for a start.
Guess what’s a good way to keep them from finding out? Keep those women away. And to do that, well, keep on putting out the idea that submissive men are really unattractive. Something that looking at the typical couples in femdom will do really, really well.
June 9, 2008 at 4:51 am
Maybe it’s just me, but i’ve noticed the opposite. Lady dom’s tend to be older and uglier than the males they go around with. I’ve always assumed it was a supply and demand thing, with supply of dom ladies being low.
anywho, maybe that’s just the scene where I am. Who knows.
I did have the ever loving shit beat out of me by a very attractive lady saturday night, but i like to think that that had more to do with my fuck-awesomeness than my wallet (i think i’ve bought her dinner, maybe?)
June 9, 2008 at 1:12 pm
There is very little I like quite so much as men who like to get hurt and think they are fuck-awesome.
June 9, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Someone else challenged what you saw at Pedestal, and I’ve got to agree with them.
“Because in the world of femdom you see these wonderfully stunningly attractive slightly ludicrously dressed women with these funny looking saggy little men.” – BJ.
Were you actually at Pedestal? There were all sorts there, classically attractive people of both sexes, curvy/thin, young /old and men & women BJ might not like the look of. Actually what’s great about fetish clubs is most people don’t care, they just get on with doing their thing.
So bearing in mind this extreme disparity in looks isn’t true (check the club galleries if you want – i did – http://www.clubpedestal.com/gallery.html), why are you saying this?
Do you have a reason for wanting this to be true? I was there, and met lots & lots of lifestyle couples, why do you want to imply they are all beautiful Pros and ugly clients?
What I find disturbing, is that you are doing what you accuse the Pros of doing. You are deliberately distorting the image of femdom for your own purpose.
June 9, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Woah. I said – check your quoted text above – “What you see in the world of femdom“
The world of femdom is not the same as Club Pedestal, which is a little section of that world. It’s not perfect but I am happy to admit it is better than a lot of the rest. (It has me in it, for a start.)
I am glad you had a good time and that there were lifestyle couples but there were also, trust me, a whole damn lot of pros. And that reminded me of the type of femdom culture that this post is about. A lot of stuff there that is *very* influenced by the wider world of horrible femdom. For an example of how that horrible terrible world can be that check the link to femdom forum in Ranai’s comment above. That stuff is representing me. I am livid angry about that.
And you really truly think I am distorting the image of femdom for my own purpose, I have one question for you: What fucking purpose? What could my purpose possibly be?
June 9, 2008 at 11:39 pm
For the record, I’m not a prodom. I personally think that both sport and sex are defiled when money is involved.
Having said that, your ferocity is almost exclusively focused on prodoms as the cause of “horrible femdom”. I think it’s curious, and quite misdirected.
Prodoms are NOT responsible for what some men WANT… and what those men desire is what’s driving this whole financial femdom thing. What they DESIRE is what’s distorting the image of femdom for many (men and women).
Yes, you’ve criticized men a couple of times but proportionally it’s much less than the broadsides you aim at those who provide what these men seek.You continue to barrage those who supply it, as if they were responsible for creating the demand, when it’s just the opposite.
I think E. made the point that your sexuality isn’t affected by what prodoms wear or do – maybe your self-image has been, but by all accounts you seem to be doing just fine now.
Try attacking the source. Try continually criticizing the men who desire what a prodom supplies.
But no, that would be too foolish — desire is not something we can command, either to ourselves or to others. It would be ridiculous to condemn another’s desire, it isn’t a switch that we can flip on and off. We’re wired as we’re wired, right? Even if we wanted to change it, we couldn’t.
It’s easier to continue howling and railing against prodoms, whom you speak against to “save femdom”. For whom? Yourself for sure, but do you even like other amdoms? Unless I missed something I’ve NEVER seen a single positive word about other doms (no, kissblowing to other bloggers doesn’t count). Do you have any as friends? Have you ever had any? Have you ever tried to know another amdom?
I read you very regularly, I love your passion for femdom, I think you’re right to question a lot of what’s passed off as Real Domination, but if you’re hating on the prodoms for the rest of us, I have to say I find your tactics questionable, and your aim increasingly skewed.
With sincerest regards!
June 10, 2008 at 8:04 am
I think I talk about pros too much too. I wish I didn’t. I actually try very hard to keep them out of what I talk about. I think I used to talk about men more. Must try harder.
I don’t have any amdom friends IRL. I’m pretty anti-social and I don’t like many kink-based-spaces. And most of the ones I have been to have been pretty much exclusively M/f.
Also I don’t know how easy it would be for me to be friends with someone like that because of the issues I have around my own sexuality and the whole ’sadism is pretty horrible’ thing I have. But maybe that will get better – sometimes I think it might.
Anyway, you should like what’s coming next.
June 10, 2008 at 11:48 am
Well, you did distort what you saw at Pedestal – which you used to inspire this post. Most of the women there were lifestyle people, I’d say about 80%. I’m going on what I saw, as a regular, and from the galleries. (From the galleries I can see only 5 women I know are Pros, and 19 I know are amdoms.)
“I am glad you had a good time and that there were lifestyle couples but there were also, trust me, a whole damn lot of pros.” – BJ
I’m sorry but I dont trust your perception, as you dont know the amdoms. Why, when an event is so full of lifestyle couples (hundreds of people), place so much emphasis on the Pros…
You’re an amazing writer, and this blogg is one of the most thought provoking and entertaining I know. I just wish you’d stop portraying us all in this way.
June 10, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I am an “amdom”. I’m also someone who is not too keen on the distortions the transactional nature of prodom activities bring into the femdom world. But like L.D. above, I am saddened by your inability to direct your attacks at a more appropriate target.
And yet how predicable.
I sympathise with your insecurity – I think society works very hard to undermine women’s self-confidence, and to ensure that as often as possible, we attack other women we perceive to be more confident than ourselves. I am disappointed though that someone who seems as intelligent as you do, is unable to rise above their personal insecurities to see the world in a slightly more objective way.
I agree that pro-doming can have a negative impact because, amongst other things, it lets men off the hook – they really should have to try much harder in anything that resembles a personal or sexual relationship. I also agree that the femdom world (and society in general) has suffered greatly from the pressure imposed on women to conform to men’s ideals of sexuality rather than explore their own (usually much more scary) version.
But trust *me*, Bitchy, after experiencing some 20 years of fetish clubs in London, I am convinced that Club Pedestal (which I have been to several times) is actually trying to do something very real to redress that imbalance.
Unlike you.
June 10, 2008 at 2:54 pm
“There is very little I like quite so much as men who like to get hurt and think they are fuck-awesome.”
aww. thanks bitchy. I think you rock, too.
June 10, 2008 at 2:54 pm
whoops. coast to coast = zonk.
June 10, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Hm, I would say that this blog actually does do something to address and redress the imbalance.
Thanks for posting the link to the party photos, Seafield. As I’ve never been to any London Fetish club, I’ve only these fleeting impressions to go by. In general they look like people were having a good time. Where’s the camera’s lens directed? To me, it would look much more inviting if there were some more photos that focused on showing off the men. Perhaps, at the next event, two photographers?
June 10, 2008 at 4:16 pm
I am very aware of the power of ideas and the written word, but Ms Jones’ clever writing has unfortunately degenerated into an opportunity to have a good rant about a well-worn subject for her.
I don’t personally feel that, in terms of aiding the “femdom cause”, such writing stacks up that well against a real life event that is actually providing some unusually positive public experiences for many dominant women.
June 10, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Damn! I nearly went to Pedestal too. If I had known you were going, I would have gone if only to do a bit of Bitchy spotting.
As It is, I prefer the clubs where I can get hurt without having to do the crawling on the floor, worshipping the goddess bit. Fortunately there are Dommes who like me, just because I am like that.
Anyway as a bald middle aged far from hunk with a small er wallet I wouldn’t stand a chance at Pedestal.
June 11, 2008 at 11:35 am
“I have one question for you: What fucking purpose? What could my purpose possibly be?” – BJ
I’m puzzled too, because its obviously not the feminist cause I thought it was. I do think there’s stacks of honesty about yourself in this thread, and these comments stick in my mind :
“A lot of stuff there that is *very* influenced by the wider world of horrible femdom.” -BJ
“…the issues I have around my own sexuality and the whole the whole ’sadism is pretty horrible’ thing I have. ” – BJ
Its that word “horrible” that sticks in my mind. Admirably honest lines, but both of them made me wince. I don’t want to sound like a hippie, but I imagine most of us wanted to replace “horrible” with something like “different”.
This is what I think BJ does, she demonizes `different`. Distorts it and makes it badder than it really is. She makes it “horrible” herself. She does that to Pro Doms, mandoms, other peoples different kinds of femdom, and sadly herself. Venting rage at the different/horrible might not have been your original purpose, but it seems to be taking over.
So when you go to Pedestal BJ, you must of felt like a kid in a candy shop. Suddenly surrounded by stacks and stacks of difference, the wider world of horrible femdom you love to hate, just as much as the horrible femdom inside you. Only none of it is actually horrible, least of all you. Often difficult to accept and understand yes, but beautiful.
For you the woman on the door who liked to be called Mistress, different/horrible. The kneeling men offering flowers not just to you, but all the women – different/horrible. In fact those boys who adore all the women are more than different, they’re almost opposite to you – write a whole fucking blogg about how much you hate everything about them – but blame it on the woman at the door – hate her the most. Oh shit, a couple where the woman is pretty and the slave is ugly – another opposite to BJ’s `percieved self image’ (false) and her prince charming – demonize those fuckers too – make em out to be gold digging pro and client . In the process, scare poor Proccie off from ever going to a real life femdom event…
Alternatively next time you go out, do what the rest of us try to do, mingle & accept. Accepting that maelstrom of different forms of femdom and fetishism is the key to accepting your own. The women who enjoy the kneeling/worshiping/groveling aren’t so different, actually, from the women who enjoy punching in the face over and over again.
Bye the way Proccie, you don’t have to do the crawling and worship, you can just be a pain slut if you wish. And leave your wallet at home…the demons aren’t real.
June 11, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Hmm. At the club I go to, domming (or subbing, or anything-ing) for money is not allowed. So there are some pro doms there (who I recognize because I know them, not because they’re usually dressed up), but they’re not pro domming there, if that makes sense. And my experience of the F/m pairings is that the man is usually more attractive than the woman, which suggests that it would suck to be an unattractive submissive man. (On the M/f side it seems more normal and random as to which is more attractive.)
June 11, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Sorry Dev, I’m going to talk right over you to answer Seafield’s epic comment (do we have a record?)
Seafield. I do not like sadism much. I find it a disturbing and frightening part of me. It makes me upset quite frequently. I also do not like the male-authored representation of my sexuality. I call them both horrible. But I don’t think noticing that is the holy grail you seem to think it is.
You say my criticisms of femdom are distortions. Do you believe then that there is nothing wrong with femdom and the way it represents and fails dominant women.
If so then you are wrong. This is the most misogynistic sexual sub culture in the world.
Here’s how I know
June 11, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Oh, and, I think you have misinterpreted Proccie’s comment. He was talking as someone who had been to Pedestal before and agreed with some of what I said (I think it’s less his thing than mine, really.) Not some poor thing who had been put off forever by my harsh words.
June 11, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Thanks BJ. No way could you put me off fetish clubs, I like them far too much. I shall maybe have to try Pedestal again just to see if my first impressions were correct or not.
June 11, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Attractiveness is so often a matter of presentation and inner attitude. What I would like is a general perception of femdom, where it is very likely that a man who, for example, reads in an invitation “men are required to look like they are into dominant women” will think right away: “Ah! Gotta look my best and sexiest! Let’s see, what will I wear…”
(And not, for example “Oh. Well. How do I make myself look unworthy?”)
That’s not a question of any particular club or event. It’s about images representing us, looking at femdom from dominant women’s perspective, and about positive male self-image.
June 12, 2008 at 6:35 am
So where are the image-makers who can represent you the way you wish? All I read are grumbles about the way us men make femdom according to the way our testosterone dictates it, but where are the female photographers and artists? You’d think that there could be a few who could come along to whom you could bestow on your “Bitchy “seal of approval -is that so difficult? We have Elizabeth making a positive contribution with her writing, so come on girls – get out your sketchpads and have a go.
Send me your jpgs and show me what it really means to draw femdom from a female perspective. The most promising newcomer gets a swish romantic dinner with me and then while violins play softly in the background, we pass the hours discussing such fine points of drawing as the anatomical rendering of the male gluteus or perhaps whip design- then I whisk you away in a taxi to my computer set-up and upload your art to -get this-a launch to ***stardom*** from my site-Sardax.com. Yes?-you will? Weeeeeee!
But seriously-(that was British irony-by the way), light a candle-don’t curse the darkness!
June 12, 2008 at 10:43 am
I think, Sardax, a lot of the women who are into drawing porn, including porn of tied up and whipped men, focus entirely on the men so they don’t have to bother with female representations that bore them or remind them of [insert cliché]. So if they include more than one human figure, they draw Yaoi. I don’t draw myself, but the drawn porn that gets me off is usually yaoi, by female and male artists, Japanese as well as Western fanart. (And yaoi porn struggles to free itself from its own arsenal of clichés!)
But perhaps over the time more dom women will venture into making hetero porn as well. That would be nice.
Photographers: I so agree, I would love to see this too!
June 12, 2008 at 10:51 am
I think you’re still doing it , making hard to accept the sexualities of other people.
You’ve gone from this :
“the wider world of horrible femdom.” – BJ
and now redefined it, adding another negative :
“I also do not like the male-authored representation of my sexuality. I call them both horrible.” – BJ
I think you’re still looking for reasons not to accept other peoples versions of your `frightening’ sadism. Your sadism has been described by a man, so I could reject you as male-authored. But that would be bollocks. The wider world of femdom has *mostly* been described by men, yes, but its just a real as the sadism in you. It all needs to be accepted and understood. By hating the different versions of sadism and masochism in others, you are making it harder to accept your own, because they’re probably related.
“This is the most misogynistic sexual sub culture in the world.” – BJ
There’s absolutely no way your last statement is true, sorry. But perhaps another example of the demonizing of female dominance.
Yes of course there are things wrong with femdom, lots of things and it is too focused on male fantasies. Hopefully we can agree on these two things about femdom. We need to work harder at representing its femaleness. We need to work harder at accepting the real diversity of femdom and fetishism.
But please, dont throw out the baby with the bath water.
June 12, 2008 at 3:50 pm
The tricky thing about this is I think you have a good point. Just not quite.
Here’s what I think: Sometimes femdom is indefensibly awful. Sometimes I am uncomfortable with myself. And sometimes I think femdom has a kind of sub-awfulness where it doesn’t give me a space to me a doubting self-loathing mess.
Sometimes I don’t see the difference.
Not that I think the ideas I write about (including the above) are all about me not being happy with who I am – but I will admit that it is sometimes fueled by reasons other than the delivery of piercing shards of truth.
(Now I feel bad that I have said that a buried it in the comments. I’ll try and write a post about it.)
June 12, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Interesting. In a similar way as described here when I ignorantly used to see the occasional Pro a very long time ago the disparity of looks between them and their boyfreinds was astounding.
One had an awful habit of whinging to me about her love life I can’t see why though its not as if she hasn’t made a career out of the repression of her own sexuality must be half asleep or something.
I think this thread really points out why Femdom is a no go area for many.
Perhaps alternatly to the weird stuff here about male subs supposed to be unnatractive etc, one could say there is something uniquely erotic about submitting to a member of the fairer sex with 1o times less testosterone because the initial apparent grounds make there more skewed power psychologicaly while knowing that the biggest sexual organ is the brain and sex is all psychological anyway.
June 13, 2008 at 6:04 pm
When Dommes don’t bother with the scene, don’t hang around long or just aren’t in the scene as so often described by the scene itself in a beligerant “Don’t look at us not our fault actually its your fault!” kind of way then it can hardly come as a surprise that if Pro Dommes come onto someone with no context for their sexuality at the time then when looking around, think its some kind of sick weirdo trick.
Utterly lame
June 13, 2008 at 8:18 pm
“You say my criticisms of femdom are distortions. Do you believe then that there is nothing wrong with femdom and the way it represents and fails dominant women.”
Straw man. There’s a whole world of shades of grey between “BJ’s criticisms of femdom are distortions” and “there is nothing wrong with femdom”.
Putting the cart before the horse. “the way [femdom] fails dominant women” already assumes that there is something wrong with femdom, prejudging the question. Even if femdom were perfect (which I grant it isn’t), how could anyone possibly answer, “Nah, there’s nothing wrong with femdom,” given the immediate implication that it fails dominant women in just the right way?
June 14, 2008 at 7:51 pm
When clearing the table of broken bits trying to work it out I suppose you could just simplify the whole thing and look at how Pro Domming is a job founded on a lack of acceptance of F/m (this is what Pro Dommes say).
Therefore if F/m as a scene is loads of Pro Dommes then you could just take the individual circumstance of how 1 Pro Domme is a job founded on the lack of acceptance of F/m then times it by 100,000.
Its just sociology, I blame subs too though its not as if 10% of Dommes contacts aren’t offering them money whithin an environment that the main / only viable existance is as a Pro.
According to simple logic (not opinion) by relation a Pro Domme is wishfull thinking if she thinks she will find a boyfreind, thats pretty obvious when we consider most Dommes aren’t around although reading between the lines it would seem that Pro Dommes wouldn’t be interested in actually dating a $ub. I think this is a poinient factor if we are to consider how much a vested interest Pro Dommes claim to have in the scene.
Nobody F***s with £150-£250 an hour (or whatever rip off it is) it F***s with you.
lol
September 10, 2008 at 11:38 am
So Pedestal was full of women dress up to indulge the sexual fantasies of men for financial motives (or if you want to be less vulgar about it-making a pragmatic Darwinism decision to attract a potential partner who can provide security for herself and her off-spring).
This is hardly a radical observation and can be seen in any environment rich and/or famous but ugly fat men congregate. Yes I know money doesn’t bring happiness and should be searching for me lasting charming and intelligent traits in their partners, but sadly most people would like the benefit of the doubt.
You may say Femdom is “charmless, brash and stupid, has no sense of irony and no sense of fashion, aesthetics and no class” but that description could apply to any bar/club meat market on a Friday night.
You might feel more at home hanging around the South Bank to meet witty, wise sophisticates but you will only not find a shortage of crudely dressed high heeled women to bitch about; academics have big wallets and indexed linked pensions as well.
September 10, 2008 at 11:41 am
How dare you call you sexist discredited armchair grasp of sociobiology Darwinism
September 10, 2008 at 12:13 pm
I wasn’t being sexist, most men are on the make as well.
How else could we get women to dress up to indulge our tacky sexual fantasies?