If you are a dominant woman you will come into contact with submissive men. They will sniff you out like dogs. Well, actually, not really – but there is some hot in that. But Fido-fun isn’t what I’m talking about right now.
What I am talking about is that if you are a dominant woman and you write a blog submissive men will send you some emails (Although in my case, not such a volume I need the services of some grateful-for-the-tiniest-bone submissive man to sift them for me.) And if you put up a personal ad you will get replies. And if you go to a club or event you will get propositioned. (Even hedge-backwards-style-aficionado me – albeit in a begrudging sort of way.)
For see, despite my oft times claims to be kinky sex’s most revered hermit, I have done my time. I have been at the fucking coal face. I have been to clubs and fetish fairs and munches. Ones I even went to a dinner at a Mongolian Barbecue with a bunch of strange perverts who kept asking me and Pan which of us was sub and which was dom. (And it later transpired that everyone else there was M/f (the couples at least – I think their might have been some loose submissive men rattling around) and every time I got talking to any of the women a mandom appeared and shooed her off to the barbecue to collect more food. Which – not meaning to piss all over their red-hot 24/7 dynamic or anything – I found annoying. And it even later than that transpired, I think, that the group broke up after that very event. But I don’t think I had anything to do with it.
Truth, though, truth is, I have spent most of the last decade and a bit looking half-heartedly for some kind of kinky sex hinterland where I would feel like I belonged. And just ended up getting disappointed. (Weirdly, until I started this blog about my continual disappointments. ‘Cause when I go out now, even if it is only very occasionally, to somewhere like CCK or LAM (is it me or is the world much more acronymistic since the internet?) and I feel more a part of it because even though no one there knows I am Bitchy Jones, I am. And that is a nice – yet strange – feeling.)
But so anyway, what I am saying is: submissive men. God! Firstly, I notice them. I read their ads and blogs. I read the strange erotic novels they have written. I watch them in the places I go. They are my world because I know if I am going to get my kind of lights-out-jollies it really helps if the man is a submissive man.
(Really. Trust me, I do not want a mandom to be more of a challenge – or to dominate me really. Seriously I don’t actually know what they fuck goes around about the ever popular dom/dom couples but the idea that somehow dominant women prefer mandoms to mansubs ’cause they are somehow better. For serious? Seen any mandoms lately? If you want me to tell you what’s going on with dom/dom couples I say it’s simple. At least one of them is a switch. And that’s that. Dominant women do not really prefer dominant men to submissive men – not unless they have some kind of leather waistcoat fetish.)
But really, I know very little, but I do know to start with an oven-ready submissive man. Otherwise the negotiations just take to long.
So here’s the thing about submissive men. When they interact with me (and by me I mean all dominant women – and I shall ignore you muttering “as per fucking usual“) submissive men are nothing except submissive men.
What I mean is submissive men compartmentalise their submission to such an extend that if they are being a submissive man, every other part of themselves gets jettisoned.
It’s like they have 2 settings. He is either himself or he is his sexual self. And that OR is – logic fans – an exclusive OR*.
I don’t know why this is. Maybe it relates to that typical Miss Whiplash statement where she goes on about how all her clients are high court judges and senior policemen. Because we are still meant to swallow that myth that submissive men are men with strong powerful jobs who just need to give up control once in a while.
So being submissive is – for a man – never part of who you really are, just this rogue part of you, this devil on your shoulder who takes control once in a while. A split personality. Being submissive isn’t you. It’s the other occasional you. An itch that once scratched recedes again.
And I think this is another point where femdom suffers from the archetypal F/m relationship being one of sex worker and client. Measured out in hours. No relationship outside of the dungeon.
Real life isn’t like that. And if you are shooting for a real life relationship you need to be a real life person.
Now look, I know what you’re thinking. You’re thinking this is going to be one of those mumsy hand-holdy posts dominant women sometimes write where they patronisingly explain to submissive men how they are doing it wrong. Well, ‘chaknow this isn’t that. I’m not here to help those kinds of men who reply to personal ads with messages about how they are anal sluts and do I want to see them fist themselves on cam (N/N)?
(God, you know, if you are a submissive man who likes being done up the arse with a strap on and thinks I might ever change my views on that whole femdom show stopper, really, I’ve got to tell you, the anal sluts are not doing good PR for you right now.)
Because I know that submissive men are not stupid. And I know it is possible to be a submissive man and a human both at once. There are a couple of blogs I can think of by submissive men (Not an exhaustive list – god, I hope) where the fact of their submissiveness is just an aspect of who the men are themselves.
And the men I have pursued have been ones who, from the start, have been able to this 360 degree submissive man thing.
Not just Jack, but X and even Charlie Hong Kong (who incidentally wasn’t from Hong Kong – that was just how far he ran to get away from me. It was a very extreme kind of time wastering).
But you know, the full stop for me is that submissive men turn me on. Because I like that. Because no matter how much I might spit about them and the horrible world they have built in the name of my desires, they are the missing piece of me. And I don’t want submissive ciphers, empty worms, personality-free gimps, I want human beings who are also submissive. People who just happen to get turned on being on the flip side of the thing that turns me on. Which is a pretty basic human need, really, for everyone.
And one of the things about humans, one of the things that draws one human to another is the whole complex package. I’m talking about relationships. I don’t really like casual sex. I’m too emotionally unstable, I drop too hard. And I learnt all that the hard way by dropping from way too high onto way too unforgiving a surface. Humans turn me on. Not naked sexualities.
And I think its time submissive men** got their humanity back.
*
* How long has it been since I thought about Boolean algebra. Both 14 years AND not long enough.
** As I was writing this I wondered whether this is just the case for submissive men or whether it is true for all people who have a sexuality they feel they need to hide. They get so used to hiding their sexual selves when they are revealing themselves that they end up hiding themselves when they are revealing their sexual selves. But I don’t know because I pay far too much attention to submissive men and too little to other less inviting classes of person.
20 Comments
July 18, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Hey
I’m not sure I always agree with some of your content, but I really enjoyed this posting. Your blog is entertaining & often with a point of view that makes me consider my own feelings or motivation on the subject.
Keep it up.
Geoff
July 18, 2008 at 1:29 pm
I can’t possibly imagine being open about my submissiveness. To others the stereotype is probably a pathetic rubber-bondaged gimp (as found in Sardax’s illustrations or Pulp Fiction) and that’s an image I want nothing to do with. So my submissiveness is a private dynamic that takes place only with my partner. Is that having a split personality? No, not at all. It’s just that that part of my personality is reserved, private.
With others, the most I’d reveal is being attracted to strong independent women and being a *little bit* wrapped around my partner’s finger. You can joke about those things with the guys (only just).
I fear the barbie-domme/gimp-sub stereotype will take a miracle to dispel. But keep up the good work BJ!
July 18, 2008 at 3:14 pm
My favorite part of this post is your link to the XOR page on Wikipedia. Well, that, and the part where you link to me.
Of course, there is the obvious statement that so many submissive men try to do: “Be yourself.” And yet in their trying, they succeed only in its exact opposite. I think Sun Tzu said it best:
July 18, 2008 at 3:32 pm
My experience as been much as you described, on both sides of the argument you present.
I have had a 10 year relationship with a stereotypical submissive male, a male for which submission is an extension of his sexuality, not his overall personality. He is a high powered male in the executive world and leads a very conservative life. His submissiveness is well hidden.
However, I am currently in a Fem-lead marriage to a submissive male who although his submission to me is not evident to anyone who doesn’t know what they are looking at, it is part of his personality, not just his sexuality.
I think there are two types of men, or people for that matter, those that are sexually submissive, possibly to balance out their lives and those that are innately submissive, that are fulfilling a need beyond their sexuality.
I don’t think one is more valid than the other, just that they need to be matched with a partner that works well with their type of submission.
On the point of Dom women; I am a dominate woman, always approached by submissive men as such because I put forth dominate energy but will respond to a Dom/Domme if they are intuitive enough to know there is more to me and are able to dominate MY dominate. Only then do I become submissive, but it doesn’t mean I am less of dominate woman because I am a Switch.
July 19, 2008 at 2:35 am
Bitchy I find it refreshing when you express in your words that you’re genuinely turned on by submissive men. From the outside looking in, BDSM has a lot of Jerry Springer type crap heaped on top of it and probably underneath a lot of that, there are some genuine people who are simply looking for sexual compatibility.
Like many of the sub men that come sniffing your way, Dommes in the public community tend to only come in a few flavours as well…
Pure capitalists that are looking for nothing but financial gain… women from failed vanilla relationships who want to be treated like a queen under the banner of kink… or flaky sexual explorers where femdom is their current conquest in a list of things they will eventually try.
From a male submissive perspective it’s equally frustrating trying to identify with others when all you see is this fluff and drivel. Not to mention trying to be compatible with someone on all levels rather than just kink.
The numbers certainly aren’t in our favour, on either side.
July 19, 2008 at 1:23 pm
This post says much of what my (dom) friends and I say among ourselves.
I really enjoyed reading this one, my compliments!
Here’s a little video I enjoyed, maybe you and the other readers will also like it.
Have a good weekend!
July 19, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Oh how stupid, here’s the video
July 19, 2008 at 2:01 pm
First, I’m going to second what May said. Apparently I haven’t been getting my fix of geeky humor lately. That, and the fact that you linked to *ahem* my own favorite blog.
And I’m going to back you up on one of your points, albeit in a small way. Mrs. Edge – who does not consider herself kinky in the least (despite her arousal at the thought of denying my orgasms for months at a time, and using the various toys we’ve accumulated and all the other play that this entails), has absolutely no desire turn the tables. She doesn’t like pain, doesn’t want to be restrained, and doesn’t want to be forced to do anything. Period, full stop. I’ve been known to “edge” her, and I’m risking trouble when I do.
The idea that women are only “temporary” tops until some stronger man comes along is a well-known fear among submissive men, and plays out in not just a few erotic stories. The subtext is that men simply can’t be submissive or else they risk losing their partner to a “real” man. I believe that this line of thinking keeps a lot of men from even mentioning that they would like to explore some BDSM play with a partner, let alone admit that they have sub tendencies.
And I think its time submissive men** got their humanity back.
Beej, I couldn’t possibly agree more.
July 19, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Boils down to submissive does not equal weak. Even if a submissive is “weak” before his dominant, it no more carries into real life than any other situational characteristic.
Vanilla example: if you enjoy the doggy style position in your sex life, you are not more likely to bend over everyone you encounter at work.
And if you are, that isn’t a function of your sexual preferences, but something different entirely.
July 19, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Hmm that was interesting!
(and although other people got there first, an extra yay for the XOR – ::tickled::)
July 20, 2008 at 11:55 am
Mmm… Maybe the role playing is to blame. A lot of people enact fantasies, it’s hard to be yourself, dressed up as a sissy maid, dressed as a prisoner or whatever… Acting in a way is letting a specific aspect of your personality out, and exaggerate and enlarge it, it facilitates compartmentalization. Most main stream coverage of bdsm always focuses on the role playing, the dressing up part, people are bound to start seeing that as the essence of bdsm. Besides that, having a little scenario is a emotionally safe way of dealing with the rough edges of BDSM. It’s all role playing after all… All those weird feelings have nothing to with the ordinary me…
Pure unadulterated sadism (i hurt you because i get off on it) or masochism (i like being hit because it gets me hard) can be a scary thing. The dressing up etc. sugar coats it.
I think it takes a very good loving relation to make bdsm feelings a integral part of ones life. It takes an investment to let the humanity back in. Unfortunately not everybody has such a relation.
July 20, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Thing is, there aren’t many people who wear their sexuality on the outside… it’s meant to be a private, and you are thought odd if you bring it into inappropriate places.
I don’t think submissives can be charged with having a lack of integration: there are times when their submissivenes is a relevant and appropriate part of life, and times when it is not, like masturbation. That the submissive part may grow in importance or urgency if that part of their being isn’t fed or watered makes it like many other parts of sexuality which , again, one wouldn’t share necessarily.
In any case… you admitted that even in an appropriate place you don’t own up to the Bitchy Jones part of yours… and yet that’s a hidden part of you which has relationships (with us, the readers) and a history. It has its place… and a man’s or woman’s submission has its place too.
July 20, 2008 at 3:32 pm
I think the self I use during submissive sex, the self I use during vanilla sex, and the self I use in my fantastically dull daily life are all about as valid as each other – I suppose people find it a little psychologically safer to compartmentalise, to divide up “this is who I am when I’m being fucked, and that means I get to take a holiday from being who I am when I’m watching TV”.
July 21, 2008 at 4:58 am
I hate the story that sexually submissive men are really Alpha males and CEO’s looking for temporary escape from their hard-driving personalities. It plays into the idea of men as success objects, the flip side of women being valued exclusively by looks.
July 21, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Hurrah for Boolean logic!
I suspect the reason for the “submissive men are Alpha Males outside the bedroom” myth is that alpha males are the only men who can afford pro-domme prices (or could before the market for pro-dommes became saturated, at any rate). Hence, the only submissive men pro-dommes ever see are the CEO-type.
July 22, 2008 at 2:07 am
I have noticed the phenomena you identified in a lot of my brothers. I try not to fall into such annoying stereotypes. I think my submission to women makes me stronger. I like to identify with the submission and masochism of the medievel knights. Their sacrifice for their ladies was a show of strength and masculinity, not weakness.
July 25, 2008 at 10:49 pm
What weird novels? I love this post. And I think it’s so true. Even being open about my submissiveness I often feel like I’m two people and I can’t seem to bridge that divide. Anyway, beautiful stuff as usual.
July 26, 2008 at 8:07 am
There is a seeming paradox or contradiction in ‘’submission can be powerful.” I’m in a phase of wrestling with this one. I see the offer to give up power to a special woman as gift, just as her acceptance of the offer is a gift in return. I don’t make that offer to very many women, and that gives me a sense of power. I’m choosey, just as dommes are choosey.
That is different from the fantasy-driven idea of female supremacy, which implies that submissive men should desire to submit to all women. That’s nonsense. I agree that healthy D/s occurs in the context of 360-degree relationship between two people who choose to offer eachother a gift that has the deepest meaning to them as individuals.
I can play with women in less formal contexts of course. That can be wonderful too, but it’s still based on mutual attraction and trust, not money or general worminess crawling at the feet of a woman in boots. Nice post.
July 28, 2008 at 8:45 pm
I am and have always been very proud of my submissivenes as regards sexuality.The only problem is that that submissiveness is also perceived by most as both wrong and unusual.
My submissiveness would of course if generally known be interpreted in the manner of
well i can push him about in all situations. (Sorry keyboard has lost quotation marks).
August 27, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I can’t tell you how strongly I agree here. Seriously. I’ve been catching up reading since about January (referred here by a male sub on FetLife), and while I don’t always agree with you, I feel like applauding now.
I love strong men. I love submissive men. I do not think those two things are mutually exclusive! One of my favorite things about my submissive is his strength. I love his self-discipline and his strength (physical and emotional). I love the fact that he has interests outside of submission without compartmentalizing or hiding hus submissive side. More importantly, I RESPECT him, and all of those things about him. And, well, dammit, I LIKE him. Not just his submissive tendencies. Sure, I love tying him up and hurting him all of the most delightful ways, but I also like hearing him talk about his passion for photography, and his martial arts. I like spending completely (outwardly) vanilla time with him and just enjoying him. I don’t just like/love/respect a single aspect of him, but ALL of him, and how all of it works together in him to make him the person that he is.
A food (pro-Domme, actually) friend of mine pointed out that unless both people have a level of personal power, then there can be no power EXCHANGE, it’s just a siphoning from one to the other.