If you like obedience you are in for a treat. I’m going to tell you to do something.
Look Buster/Bitch/Worm/Tadpole: Just stop commenting on this famous shit-kicking I hate forced fem and you should too post and saying stuff like this:
I’d argue that sexual fantasies don’t have to be politically correct. Can’t a woman with fantasies about being dominated still be a feminist ? More controversially what if Oprah Winfrey got turned on by the idea of being a plantation slave to a white man ? Or, as per Nick Broomfield’s excellent (It is not ‘excellent’ – BJ) documentary “Fetishes” a Jewish person fantasising about Nazis ?
But you probably wouldn’t be too happy with (say) Jewish people whose deepest darkest kink is to play the role of people in Nazi concentration camps… yet those people exist, and they have the connections with relatives who died in the camps, and it is perhaps “survivors guilt” that is driving some of that kink. I don’t know — but then I don’t go around assuming that they must be sick…
NO. These non-PC fantasies could be less like forced fem if they were my great auntie Dolly’s Xmas list. Forced fem is *not* the fucking same as a black woman getting off pretending to be a slave or the same as Jewish guy getting off on concentration camps. Yes, these are all tricky and difficult kinks to feel comfy with, especially as a middle class white person rolling around in my freshly laundered white privilege. But let’s not talk about right or wrong about that. Let’s talk about why the argument that these two things are like forced feminisation is shitty fucking shitpiss horse crap (and horse piss.)
Forced fem is not the same as these edgily un-PC fantasies. It is also not like femsub. (Yes femsub can be feminist – JESUS GOD! – don’t fucking talk to me like I don’t think that is true. It is obviously true that female sexual fulfillment is part of feminism!)
Here is why you are talking out of a dead bull’s rancid penis. In *all* these conveniently edgy examples the person getting off on a bedroom version of a real world degradation the degraded person is a person *from* the group that is degraded in the outside world. That give your examples a sort of credence – you have ascribed them all to a minority. Vaguely making out that my views would also condemn the sexual fantasies of black people or Jews or submissive women. But that’s where you fuck up, fucker-upper – ’cause it is *that* that makes them different. If you want to compare forced fem to some kind of race play the nearest you could get would be some white guy blacking up and then getting their partner to degrade them. And, be sure, to degrade them just for being black.
Now if you did could come along as say to me, hey what’s your problem with forced fem, Bitchy fun-spoiler Jones, because it is just the same as that kinky you hear about all the time where white people black up and get degraded for being black, but strangely, no one seems to want to defend forced fem like that. And, look, I know making comparisons between the ways different minorities are oppressed is dodgy and difficult but I didn’t fucking start this, did I?
Who has the power outside the bedroom is relevant. Taking something that oppresses you in daily life and making it your sexual power source is a valid and often useful thing to do. And hot. Taking something you use to oppress other people and then making some parody of it to stroke off some ideas you have that wouldn’t it be dirty to be a slutty women, ain’t the same thing. That’s why I can say it isn’t okay and not be oppressing the way some oppressed groups make sexual fantasies of their oppression.
It is a different thing.
Look, you know that bit in the America version if the office where Steve Carrell’s character takes off a Chris Rock routine and it’s horrifying? That’s the same thing. Rock takes some language and ideas that oppress the group he comes from in real life, and makes them funny. Carrell takes some ideas that oppress a group that he has power over in real life and that makes it horrifying. That’s the difference.
And that’s not even getting started on forced fem’s prevalence in femdom enforcing shitty little ideas about femininity and submission being, like, what, fucking interchangeable, or something. Just stop. Really. If everything we do in femdom equates the ideas that femininity is what submission really is and dominance requires a cock and no emotional engagement, femdom will never stop being a joke, a sickness, a wrong, wrong thing. You can come and ask me why I don’t like gender bending if you like, but the reason I complain about this stuff is because femdom just can’t stay away from it. Like the dominant paradigm of cock wins over cunt is so seductive that we, who think we are so fucking subversive, can’t unthink that shit even as we enact the opposite.
Why is there so much gender bending in femdom? It’s like femdom – as is – is so unstable. It’s sodium metal. And it’s just desperate to fizz back to the salt of normality. It’s like the way the world is, this, my kink, can’t really exist. Which is sadness making.
So if you want to start and argument with me, hey come on, it is Christmas, but don’t come over here saying forced fem is a bit like something Oprah might like in some kind of weird fantasy of yours (Jesus, like ascribing your hypothetical fantasy to a black woman in a totally (as far as I can tell) made up way legitimises AT ALL!) and think that is helping your stupid, sexist, lamecore kink any.
28 Comments
December 14, 2008 at 11:47 pm
This is a tricky subject, but again, you speak a lot of sense. Your “white person blacking up” example is spot on. I remember thinking much the same thing when I was at a fetish party where a guy was all done up in frilly skirts and high-heels and being oh-so sub and “gee, aren’t I just a precious, subby little girl” and thinking “wow, what the hell must the actual women in here be thinking about this guy?” and “would that guy come here with ’submissive black guy’ fantasies if he thought there were going to be black people at this party? Probably not.”
Now, I love gender-play and I love S&M, but it’s that tricky “because” that causes all the problems, isn’t it? It’s that “now I’m submissive ‘because’ I’m acting the girl,” that little causal relationship in the brains of some people, that pretty much crosses a line.
(sidenote: I used to like Broomfield’s Fetishes, actually, but thankfully I’m very much not the same person now that I was twelve years ago. This iteration of me is considerably more enlightened. Also: that film came out twelve years ago? Wow.)
December 15, 2008 at 12:31 am
This is why you rule.
December 15, 2008 at 1:41 am
This is an old rant of yours Jones but I think it is perfectly valid, I never understood why guys thought that portraying themselves as weak, girly sissy type characters was in anyway supposed to represent the idea of feminine dominance. I guess the analogy of minstrals blacking up is appropriate. I must admit to being a little interested in the idea of how the S&M community which, judging by the few blogs I have read seems very determined to focus on consensuality, can approve of such imagery as the holocaust or the slave trade. There was certainly nothing consensual about the way the Nazi’s treated the Jews. At the same time I am fascinated by the movie Night Porter starring Dirk Bogarde. It seems that perhaps some events in peoples lives are so cataclysmic that they seek to revisit them again and again. When I lived in SE Asia I was always surprised at how many American ex-military chose to make their home in Thailand, Cambodia or Laos despite their negative attitude to the local populace. I also recall asking my parents after the first time I read No Mean City if they had ever read it, my father responded he didn’t need to read it he had lived it. He was a decade behind the book but the slums and tenaments of Govan and the Gorbals were the same. They had no desire to revisit their past.
In a way I find it quite offensive that people would compare the equal right struggle or the holocaust as comparative to their sexual kink, I mean think about it for a second the enforced slavery of generations of black people and the segregation that existed up until very recently and the genocide of millions of human beings, some of whom were made into soap bars and lamp shades compared to the fact that some guys want to dress up as girls! I always think that the guys who are into forced fem should just commit a few crimes and get sent to the big house, then they can enjoy all the forced fem action they can handle. I am beginning to wonder is kinky lifestyle only for those that have enough time or money on their hands? I remember drinking in a sleazy bar in Bangkok which was quite close to a transexual bar, as the TS were checking in for work, some of the women were quite contemptuous of the ladyboys, I asked why and they said all these ladyboys want is the fun side of being a girl, to be pretty and to get attention, they have no interest in the reality of a womans life, which as far as I can tell in Thailand isn’t much fun.
December 15, 2008 at 7:46 am
People in degradation/humiliation fantasies don’t necessarily belong to the group being degraded. One of Krafft-Ebing’s case studies was a white woman who fantasized about being a black male slave, based on reading “Robinson Crusoe,” for example. Adult babies are not babies, though they were once. People into animal roleplay aren’t animals.
The point of such play is to get out of your usual social role and adopt a role that’s the opposite.
Yes, this has a lot to do with fantasies and stereotypes of “Other” groups. I believe the entire “Master/Mistress and slave” dynamic evolved out of a distorted, romanticized view of American slavery, seen through the eyes of Europeans for whom the capacity to suffer was a sign of emotional development. Uptight Victorian bourgeois looked at American slaves or Turkish harem girls or their own children, and saw characters who could perform all the emotions and ideas forbidden to them. Think of Carl Jung’s theory of the Shadow, the person in fantasy who embodies forbidden character traits.
Forced fem is an example of that principle. The more committed the man is to a masculine identity (capability, aggression, coarseness, etc.) the more girly-girl is his Shadow. By performing his Shadow, he can get some relief. In forced fem stories, the fundamental structure is, “Stop being a man, and everybody will adore you.” The dominant woman functions as a mediating figure in the initiation from one identity to another.
December 15, 2008 at 8:08 am
Wow! I get to be a ‘mediating figure’?
How did I get so lucky?
December 15, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Strange how it just won’t work the other way round – forced masculinisation? God, I try so hard, it just won’t *humiliate* me!
And how come there’s no theory on a woman getting relief for performing her Shadow? Oh yes, I forgot, woman *is* the Shadow, the Other, the Deviant!
“Stop being a man, and everybody will adore you.” Right, that’s the problem. I don’t want to be adored for being a woman. Nothing adorable about it, I didn’t have choice, just happened to be born that way. I’d rather earn adoration by what I do. But there, that’s where it gets tricky.
December 15, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Its not too hard to earn admiration by being a woman, their are plenty of schmucks out there who will automatically show respect to women, no matter how inept they are. They are usually just trying to get laid, which is of course the prime motivation for most men. It is odd that men who can pick and choose their girlfriends, and I don’t mind admitting that I fall into this catagory, have little respect for women when they play the bleeding heart card but will respect women who genuinely earn it. Back when I used to need to work, I had a few female bosses, most were useless but one stands out. She was quite a feminist I guess but I admired her ability to get the job done and she seemed to enjoy the trafditional male actions i performed for her, such as opening doors for her, carrying her bags when she was on business trips and buying her drinks when we socialised. She also had to put up with my appaling behaviour but tolerated me because she knew I could do the job required. I remember her saying to me one time, I was the most difficult employee she ever had, I asked why and she said because I didn’t care if I was sacked so she really had no leverage over me, which was true because I was earning far more money trading for my own account that I was getting paid. She said it was an uncomfortable dynamic dealing with someone who had nothing to lose.
December 15, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Yeah. And there are plenty of schmucks out there who will automatically show disrespect to women, no matter how inept they are.
December 15, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Sure, you talk a lot of sense and I guess I understand better why I was squicked about forced fem.
I remember seeing the Broomfield thing and being horrified by the sissy-play. It was one thing for the man to be dressed up as a little girl but I was completely freaked out when she started abusing him *just for being a little girl*.
I feel the same way about when puppy play goes mean.
But if there were a group of white people who got off on being blacked up and racially abused, would the safety/squick police definitely come down on them?
When Mosely had the German (definitely not Nazi!) de-lousing scene, didn’t the bdsm community come out in support of him? And he definitely comes from white heritage.
I think they would do the whole YKINMK or however it goes.
December 15, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Gender play is such a weird area for me. I hate forced fem for all the reason you say – taking what makes me feel sexy and feminine and using it to degrade a man does nothing for me but squick me out.
On the other hand, I love a man in a skirt. I think the key there is that I love a MAN in a skirt. A dude who wants to wear a skirt, because for whatever reason, it makes him feel sexy in a non-degrading forced fem kind of way.
When I went to sex camp, there were lots of boys like that, and that sort of thing is fun for me. They look hot, and skirts work for me because they reveal ass, legs, and thighs, which are some of my favourite boy parts. For some people its a gender fluidity thing, which rocks. And then there are some who are like “Yeah, I’m a dude, and I want to wear a skirt and be a straight dude, but damnit I look great in this skirt!”
And I often really like sissy maids. I know a sissy maid who lives her whole life, as much as she can, sissied up, and when she can’t be a sissy, she goes out in non-sissy drag. However, from my conversations with her, it doesn’t appear that she’s wearing frilly girl clothing to be degraded in forced fem kind of way, but because the clothing feels right, and makes her feel sexy in a way that works for her.
I suppose, for me, its the intention behind the gender bending, more so than the bending. If its somehow empowering, I’m all for it.
December 15, 2008 at 3:45 pm
@Wendy Blackheart: Exactly. There is a difference between a man feeling humiliated because his self-perception is not feminine and because his perception of femininity is humiliating. The former is sexy, the latter is not.
December 15, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Of course we all choose our kinks after careful consideration to ensure that no one is offended by them. Well, no, we know that reality is different to that. No matter what kinks we have there are going to be people who consider us sick, evil, disgusting, and, yes, even politically incorrect.
I have no difficulty accepting that you are deeply offended, and more, by forced-fem. There are kinks that I have strong emotional reactions to.
Yet I have encountered quite a few highly intelligent, educated, wealthy women who enjoy the activity you criticize. I can’t bring myself to believe that they are somehow ethically or mentally incompetent because they engage in it or are that they are doing so from a position of weakness.
Removing all the expletives and extraneous material the underlying argument you put forth could just as validly be used to claim that all and any form of playing with power inequality is wrong between people where any sort of power inequality exists between them. That would, sadly, exclude us from all forms of non-solo sadomasochistic fun.
Those that argue “x” is always wrong, be it about homosexuality, premarital sex, abortion, or whatever are often extreme right-wing politically and/or fundamentalist religiously. That doesn’t sound like you. Truly there are very few things in life that are black and white when one considers the diversity of circumstances and the wide spectrum of humanity.
So, a question, can you give any situations where forced-fem play would be okay. Two guys in private sworn to secrecy perhaps? Or, no, I’ll reign in my imagination and leave you to answer if you choose to do so.
Michael X
P.S. For the record, I don’t do forced-fem, but when I see a sacred cow I get an over powering urge to make hamburgers.
December 15, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Ooh, busy, busy on the advent calendar. What have we learned. Hmm, inneresting, forced fem seems to squick straight women*. Ha! What a surprise seeing as how it is about how being a woman is horrible and degrading and negates the things straight women are attracted to. Oh, and did you know that there are hardly nay women in femdom. You don’t think those two things could be – my god – connected.
It’s hard this behavioral science, innit?
*Oh, some women are not squicked. These are Michael X’s ‘highly intelligent, educated, wealthy women’ – how wonderful they must be. Are they expensive?
Also, congrats to Michael for an argument so weak I know I’m right.
To save you reading his comment: Hey Bitchy Jones, you shouldn’t say things are wrong, because only baddies do that. They say that abortion is wrong and gayness is wrong, the evilers. Yeah, saying stuff is wrong is so wrong. Like saying racism is wrong, or war crimes, or bullying, or 1=2. Yeah great idea. Let’s never say anything is wrong. Except that saying stuff is wrong, of course, THAT’S WRONG!
Your argument (don’t say forced fem is wrong ’cause saying stuff is wrong is wrong) could only be weaker if you’d told me off for swearing. Oh, wait…
December 15, 2008 at 4:44 pm
I am really into forced fem, as long as it means I can sue my ex-employer for sexual discrimination, (no cap in the UK for sexual descrimination cases). The only problem is what to wear? I am 6ft4 and about 230 lbs, hmmmm I doubt there is much for me at Marks & Spencer mind you I am Scottish and do own a Kilt, even have the obligatory bottle of the Glenlivet in my sporran. You ever notice how the guys that want to be feminised are all 18stone bearded bricklayer types? Kind of like Babs Cabs in the League of Gentlemen, (apologies for people who have never seen it – its a local show).
December 15, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Hi,
Thank you for your response.
Actually only one of the women I had in mind is, or rather used to be, a sex worker.
Thank you for rephrasing my argument back at me. It demonstrated to me that communication had failed, my apologies. The point I sought to make was that I see shades of grey here and I wondered if you did too.
Don’t worry about the swearing, it detracts from the very valid points you do make and probably won’t win you many converts but it works wonderfully as a rhetorical device to emphasize your passion about this subject.
Oh, and mostly I agree with you that there are some things that are simply wrong. It’s just that in real life moral absolutes often turn out, if one looks at the circumstances, to be muddied by cultural, social and situational annoyances.
You tempt me to go off topic with what could become a fascinating discourse on moral philosophy and the delights of utilitarianism but there is something I’d really much rather hear your response about:
I did ask: “can you give any situations where forced-fem play would be okay”?
I’m sure I’m not the only one would be interested in your answer.
Regards,
Michael
December 15, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Yeah, Michael, I’m really sure you’re not the only one that would be interested in Bitchy ‘real live dominant woman’ Jones outlining some forced fem scenarios.
But these are tough times and there are women on nite flirt with Kurt Geiger bills to pay. I wouldn’t want to lie awake thinking I’d done them out of some stroke business.
December 15, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Hi again,
Ah, well there, I fear, goes the last hope for rational and reasoned discourse.
As someone who himself briefly worked in the sex industry long back when I needed the money I admire your concerns for current sex workers. Be reassured though, your writing is most unlikely to be a threat to the lively hood of professionals.
I genuinely wanted to better understand your position on this topic and I think I now do.
Thank you,
Michael
P.S. You get the last word, enjoy
December 16, 2008 at 11:21 am
If in doubt, test it the other way round. Imagine a woman who says to a man: “I want to wallow in the notion that your gender is worth less than mine, and use you as a mediating figure.” Does this sound like friendly fetishist who of course ought to be indulged?
If a man suggested to me “I want to wallow in the notion that your gender is worth less than mine, and use you as a mediating figure,” there would be nothing of my sexuality in there. And why would there be, if the woman in the equation is to be nothing but a handy catalyst. A scenario that erases the woman’s sexuality from the equation and pretends her gender is contemptible… it’s not exactly something I would call submitting to a woman.
I think this is exactly an example of what you mean, BJ, when you speak of notions of “femdom” that erase actual women.
Do I really need to mention that every woman has her own individual fetishes and sexual interests, things that turn her on, things that are indifferent to her, things that turn her off? It’s fairly obvious to people who regard a woman they meet as an individual human being, and not as a depersonalised catalyst or tool.
There are women who are into male to female crossdressing or gender bending (and not “forced feminisation as humiliation”), because male to female gender bending is their own fetish, and not something that was pushed on them, or something they do in mimicry of pros. You can spot them when you see representations of androgynous or feminine looking men that are not at all made to look contemptible, but sexy and desirable.
December 16, 2008 at 1:27 pm
When I was in high school, I dressed my b-friend up in my lingerie because he was so pretty. We were both Chinese and he had the same long hair as me and same slight build. I didn’t dress him to humiliate him. I wanted to live out a sort of simulacrum fantasy. Narcissistic, yes; demeaning, no.
Years later when I began delving into the gender bending scene with a little more feminism 101 in my pocket, I realized the same opinion regarding forced femme. Why would I degrade femininity as a female– that would make me self loathing (which I have been at times, but not for being female).
I still find gender bending sexy and agree with both your terms and Ranai’s comments. Cross dressers, trannies, androgynous, pretty boys, bois…all hot gender play with the idea of celebration that “All Gender is Drag” (Diane Arbus) in mind. Some men like to dress in lingerie simply because the texture of the fabric. There is a difference in the intention and it’s not always easy to spot, say, in a photograph. Afterall, just because a man isn’t passable or isn’t conventionally pretty doesn’t mean that they are coming from a forced-femme-humilation perspective.
I agree, too, with your views on race-role play. I used to find the Nazi-fetish incredibly disturbing (still not quite at ease with it, as I have family who were tortured in WWII by the Japanese), until I talked to a black woman who was into race-degradation and came to understand that tabboo within our taboo. What is really hard to grapple in and out of the S&M scene is Asian fetish– when the race play isn’t consensual, it’s just fucking racist. But since the fetishism is from the bottom up- as in female Asian tops are sought after by these fetishists as more desirable- the Dragonlady, Madame Butterfly, and lotus blossom isn’t seen to be what it is: racist. I’m not even just talking about the fetishism of the person; though as a Chinese dominant sadist, I have to pummel my way through the swarms of racists who think they’re admirers. The entire Orientalism of the rope bondage scene is off the hook nauseating. And I like rope bondage, so I can’t even skirt around that scene. I actually had to consider whether or not to attend Shibaricon. I wanted to attend the classes, but wasn’t sure how I’d react in a crowd of white people wearing kimonos…and not even wearing them the way they are supposed to be worn, with full obi, multiple layers, etc. ah, I’ve digressed.
In short- keep bitching.
thanks.
December 16, 2008 at 2:01 pm
There are plenty of kinks I have thought “dude, not cool”. I never really got the i’m okay-you’re okay thing.
There are things I get off on which appall me *so* I touch myself to other fantasies. Simple as. I am not a dried up husk of a woman, I just made a choice to concentrate my energies elsewhere.
For me the bdsm community (as opposed to kinky relationships), seems to be about fulfilling fantasies however sick and wrong.
(Unless they are the taboo “kids, animals or other non-consensual” … which are only acceptable if it is pretend-make-believe or the person is REALLY turned on by them.)
The bdsm community squicks me.
December 16, 2008 at 3:00 pm
I’m conflicted. On the one hand, Bitchy, you’re so obviously right about the sexist grossness of drag as humilation. On the other hand, I like the idea of forced feminization when it’s not about degrading the guy, but about making him my beautiful androgynous plaything. I don’t know; thinking of any play in terms of humiliation and degradation makes me feel lousy instead of horny. In my mind, there’s a very clear line between submission (hot) and humiliation (eww). I think other people are kind of getting at the same thing in slightly different words.
Wendy and Yin, I really appreciate your comments; it helps to know that somebody else has struggled over this stuff and sorted it out a bit.
Also, am I the only person who thinks the idea of forced masculinity could be really hot? Not in a “being humiliated and made unsexy” kind of way. (That would be just as gross as the forced fem analogue.) But the idea of being made into somebody’s hot rent boy, or being forced to do masculine sorts of physical labor… mmm.
December 16, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I see your point BJ and yet I find myself still only half agreeing. Don’t you ladies get off watching us guys feeling really uncomfortable. So if a guy is uncomfortable wearing just a fig leaf or a Village People costume or a polka-dot bikini then that’s good. Just as long as it gets the job done.
There’s this whole stigma – if you’re a real man you can’t be seen doing anything un-male, whether gay, feminine, emotional etc etc. “The guys” will just crucify you for it. So my interpretation of forced fem is about making the guy feel vulnerable if he were judged by his peers. The fact that it can be construed as insulting to women is I think unintended and just an unfortunate accident.
Sorry about the insult to your sexuality, it’s just collateral damage.
December 16, 2008 at 4:29 pm
I actually enjoy it when other people describe their experiences with or interest in gender bending of the non-misogynistic kind, like yours, Yin, Wendy, and P. Burke, even though it’s not one of my kinks.
Another thought re the “Make up a scenario of something you find insulting” comment by Michael X. Funny how rarely dominant men get asked that. Could it be because dom men are less frequently mistaken for universal service providers whose own sexual enjoyment doesn’t matter?
December 16, 2008 at 5:56 pm
You know, this is an interesting subject and it makes me laugh because what i can glean from the S&M community is this whole my kink may not be your kink, however it is still valid. You are all so determined not to offend one another. In my opinion some issues are too serious for a bit of casual sex play, personally I can get off on pretty much anything so I don’t need to push the limits.
Ying says that she cant get her head around this whole rice queen thing, well I lived in SE Asia for 15 years and, yes I have been to the Peninsula Hotel where the Japanese hung a Chinese National out of every window as an arrival notice. I was also in Indonesia in 97 when the muslims raped and killed thousands of Chinese. So I can appreciate that some Chinese may not want to view the Japanese as masturbation material. The same goes for the Jews. I am not Jewish although my Grandfather was, he was a white Russian and escaped the communists to go to Glasgow, (must have had the worst travel agent ever). If I was Jewish however, I would never buy a German product, let alone find Nazism sexy, no matter how much I love my Porsche.
I have little to say about the black experience. despite having spent a lot of time in Ghana and Sierra Leone, what used to be called the slave coast. The whole thing is quite alian to me and its worth noting that black slaves were used in the sugar plantations because they were found to last longer than the Scottish and Irish slaves. I think Jones has it right on this issue, men feeling submissive because they put themselves or are forced into the female role just devalues women and i say that as a confirmed misogynist.
December 17, 2008 at 8:41 am
It IS just a kink, though.
It has about as much relationship to real life sexism as, say, age play or forced sex kinks have to their “real life” versions of paedophilia, rape, etc. (That relationship being that it’s fostered by an unequal, sexist society, not that the kinky person necessarily supports inequality or sexism).
Of course, there are plenty of sexist men around, so I’m sure that a good proportion of men who have that kink are also sexist (and some may also be rude, insensitive and tactless in their approach). But it’s not the kink itself that’s sexist. The kink is just something people are stuck with, regardless of their political or ethical views. It’s just a bit of a bugger if you get stuck with a kink which is less acceptable to potential partners (like forced feminisation) rather than a more attractive one (being a noble, suffering, macho knight or whatever).
January 26, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Forced fem isn’t about the sub’s sex. It’s about his gender. Through culture, we’re told that traditional gender roles have some substance to them (lies), and that hoi polloi should find pride in fitting the masculine or feminine molds (more lies).
In truth, gender is nothing more than a recommendation, no part of which is necessary to accept. In forced fem, men have the myth of masculinity pulled out from under their feet. They feel turned on because they feel insecure without their gendered safety blanket on. Forced fem doesn’t claim your sex is stupid, but it does claim that your gender is.
“If in doubt, test it the other way round. Imagine a woman who says to a man: “I want to wallow in the notion that your gender is worth less than mine, and use you as a mediating figure.” Does this sound like friendly fetishist who of course ought to be indulged?”
You’re crying about nothing. None of them are wallowing in how worthless woman are but rather that their masculinity has been slain.
October 31, 2009 at 4:10 am
I enjoy the Forced Fem fantasy, as a sub.
Partially, because I’m taking on the role of someone who is physically weaker. Partially because being dressed as/treated like a slut girl, (Yes, slutty, rather than particularly girly or nicely feminine), is a way of feeling lower. And that’s not because WOMEN are lesser- they certainly are not. It’s because sluts are (at least in my mind). So combining sluttiness with physical weakness works for me.
The main reason I did it though, is because it made the Dominant I was with at the time happy. She enjoyed it, for whatever reasons, so I was happy to oblige.
October 31, 2009 at 8:55 pm
“It’s because sluts are (at least in my mind).”
So you think women who have lots of sex are lesser beings, and men who have lots of sex aren’t? (I assume you think promiscuous men aren’t sluts, since you feel the need to dress like a woman in order to dress like a slut.) Don’t you think it’s pretty sexist to decide that men can do something and it’s okay, but women who do it are suddenly worth less because of it?